Nice try Mr. Wiest.

I'm not Wiest and I am not the one editing quotes. Come back when you can be more honest.

If Wiest had to have Monsignor Perez show him how to offer Mass and teach him the Latin as well, there is no way he would have been ordained by the Schweikert group. 

At one point Wiest claimed he was ordained in Italy, and now he is supposed to have been ordained by the “Old Catholics”?

Something isn’t smelling right.

Wiest is from the Abbate line.

Flat out false, unless you are working from a different source.

Per the supplied link, Wiest is from the Schweikert line.

Schweikert was consecrated and ordained in the North American Old Roman Catholic Church,

he then consecrated Rematt, who allegedly ordained Wiest.

The source given says that " Schweikert did not believe in Abbate’s divine status, nor accept his episcopal consecration." so logically Rematt must have been ordained by someone other than Abbate.
Ergo, Wiest is not of the Abbate line.
He may be a weirdo, or much worse, but based on what has been given he is probably a priest.

1918:  Abbate consecrated Lumeno Monte a bishop.
1919 (May 2):  The New Jerusalem Catholic Church filed a Common Law Trust with the State of Illinois.
1922 (April 10):  The Sacred Heart of Jesus Church was damaged in a bomb attack.
1922 (September 10):  Abbate, now most often known as Padre Celeste, was reported to the police for having abused a twelve-year-old girl sɛҳuąƖly.
1923:  Abbate was tried for sɛҳuąƖ assault, declared criminally insane, and confined to Elgin State Hospital.
1925:  Abbate was released from the hospital.
1926:  The authorities investigated the New Jerusalem Catholic Church for tax evasion and seized Abbate’s crown and pectoral cross.
1926:  Abbate founded a female religious order: The Order of Our Most Blessed Mother, Queen of Peace Reincarnated.
1931:  Abbate was reported to the police for statutory rape of a thirteen-year-old girl. At the subsequent trial, he was sentenced to life imprisonment.
1932:  The Supreme Court of Illinois invalidated the first trial and relegated the case to a lower court. At the new trial, Abbate was sentenced to ten years in prison, but was later declared criminally insane and once more brought to the mental institution.
1933 (December):  Abbate was released from Elgin State Hospital but was soon forced to return.
1935 (June):  Abbate was released from the hospital for the last time.
1945:  The New Jerusalem Catholic Church members left their old house and moved their headquarters to the Old Irving Park area on the Northwest Side of Chicago. There they began to construct a separate church building, the Sacred Heart of Jesus Church.
1955 (June 4):  John E. Schweikert was ordained a priest in the North American Old Roman Catholic Church.
1958 (June 8):  Schweikert was consecrated a bishop in the North American Old Roman Catholic Church.
1963 (October 13):  Abbate died, and Marianna Monachino, the Mother General of The Order of Our Most Blessed Mother, Queen of Peace Reincarnated, took over the administration of the New Jerusalem Church.
1964–1965?:  The Mother General approached the Roman Catholic Diocese of Chicago, trying to convince them to send a priest who could administer the sacraments in the Sacred Heart of Jesus Church.
1965:  By referral of Roman Catholic clergy, the Mother General contacted John E. Schweikert, who had recently become the Archbishop-Primate of the North American Old Roman Catholic Church. He accepted to administer the sacraments while investigating the status of the New Jerusalem Catholic Church.
1965 (September 16):  Schweikert said his first Mass in the Sacred Heart of Jesus Church.
1967 (December 1):  The Mother General appointed Schweikert the Successor of the Celestial Messenger, Giuseppe Maria Abbate, though Schweikert did not believe in Abbate’s divine status, nor accept his episcopal consecration.
1968 (February 18):  Archbishop Schweikert was enthroned as the Celestial Messenger’s successor, and he was given the name Santo Padre Maria Michael I.
1969:  The last remaining member of the Order of the Celestial Messenger died.
1971:  The nuns started the Little Sisters School for disabled children.
1987:  Schweikert consecrated Theodore Rematt bishop. As Schweikert was very ill, Rematt was nominated his co-adjutor and successor.
1988 (May 29):  Schweikert died and was succeeded by Archbishop Rematt.
1989:  The Cathedral of the Sacred Heart was closed.
1990-1995. A series of legal processes took place between Archbishop Rematt on one side and the nuns and part of the church members on the other.
2004:  Archbishop Rematt left the Sacred Heart Cathedral, which was closed down and sold. The parishioners were scattered.

 from Time Magazine Monday, Dec. 20, 1937
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,758685,00.html

Follow @TIME
U. S. religious cultsters, practicing esoteric arts for the weak in spirit and confused in mind, have their quota of quacks and racketeers, their full share of psychotics. Last week in Chicago an egregious religionist, who in his time had attracted the notice of both police and psychiatrists, was discovered by the Chicago Times (tabloid) to be "doing business at the same old stand." He was Giuseppe Maria Abbate, 51, onetime convict, onetime maniac, known to his 100-odd present followers as the "Celestial Messenger."

"Padre" Abbate's people believe that he was not born of mortal parents but formed from "the ashes of Jesus Christ." Once he crowned the small daughter of one of his Italian-born parishioners, Mrs. Grace Ippolita, as "the Virgin Mary," instructing his followers to worship her. In 1923 the "Celestial Messenger" was convicted of ravishing a small girl, was adjudged insane. Convicted later of two more attacks, Abbate was occasionally in jail but always turned loose because of his original insanity. In the Elgin State Hospital (Illinois), where he spent two years, clad in clerical garb, Abbate became a prime exhibit for psychology classes from Chicago universities, readily telling students of the messages and visions he experienced. Last week "Padre" Abbate was installed once more, surrounded by men and women in monastic robes, in a three-story house containing his church and living quarters. He posed for photographers, wearing vestments resembling a bishop's and a mitre bearing cabalistic words, with one of his tonsured "monks" by his side. He held services for his people, giving them "the sacraments," for, as his housekeeper explained, "we are really a Roman Catholic church although we are not under the Pope." But when the press began getting too inquisitive, "Padre" Abbate secreted himself, had a sign put on the door: For Members Only.

At one point Wiest claimed he was ordained in Italy, and now he is supposed to have been ordained by the “Old Catholics”?

Thank you for pointing that out. As the title says, more weirdness.

Abbate >  Schweikert >  Rematt > Wiest

According to the sources given, Schweikert was NOT ordained or consecrated by Abbate.

 You either are having difficulty with comprehension or are being dishonest.

Abbate  >  Schweikert  >  Rematt  >  Wiest (IF that is his real name.)

I agree with Reply # 265

The line is to determine who consecrated or ordained who, to determine the lineage of orders. You're only including Abbate due to affiliation with the cult.

For the purposes of determining the "line" to Wiest, you can omit Abbate as the timeline given only lists him "consecrating" a certain Lumeno Monte in 1918.

Abbate died in 1963 and had no contact with Schweikert, and Schweikert was not in contact with this cult until 1965.
 


Schweikert  >  Rematt  >  Wiest

I would not trust the salvation of my soul to this "line".

There is no guarantee "Old Catholics" have an unbroken valid line of consecrations and ordinations. Even if the Old Catholics may have started out as an offshoot with a validly consecrated bishop, fallen away and excommunicated, there is no guarantee individuals throughout the years have maintained correct matter and form, and I would not rule out the possibly of human error.

The promise of apostolic succession, and furthermore guidance from the Holy Ghost, was only given to the Catholic Church. For the same reason I would not presume a Eastern schismatic "bishop" or "priest" to have valid orders. Yes it may have been ruled that if correct matter and form were kept that the orders would be valid, but I do not omit the possibly of human error creeping at certain points along the line, as it were.

Individuals could very well be receiving invalid sacraments from "Fr." Wiest.

PDF attached below, and also available from Academia.edu


The Journal of Old Roman Catholic Studies, Volume 1

https://www.academia.edu/43917333/The_Journal_of_Old_Roman_Catholic_Studies_Volume_1



Page 5 and 6:

Carfora established the “North American Old Roman Catholic Diocese” in Chicago after his consecration as bishop by the Prince de Landes Berghes in 1916.

After a succession of pastors, Father Zigmunt K. Vipartas was hired at Holy Cross. Vipartas was ordained a priest by Orthodox Archbishop Solovej, a soap maker in the city of Montevideo, Uruguay in 1928.6 Vipartas was consecrated by Archbishop Carfora on August 15, 1944 for the Lithuanian community and specifically the church of Holy Cross in Westville, Illinois.

(. . .)

The next episcopal activity occurred in 1958, when Bishop John Schweikert was consecrated by Archbishop Richard Arthur Marchenna assisted by Bishop Vipartas. Bishop Schweikert listed other other people as his consecrators but this appears to be the most accurate.7 Bishop Vipartas previously ordained Schweikert on June 4, 1955. Schweikert continued as Vicar General under Archbishop Marchenna after his consecration, later departing from him and joining Archbishop Cyrus Starkey of Connecticut.

Note 7: Lundberg, M. & Craig, J. (2018). Giuseppe Maria Abbate: The Italian-American Celestial Messenger. Uppsala University.
            https://magnuslundbergblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/uppsala-studies-vol-7-lundberg-craig.pdf.

I do not know if "Bishop" Vipartas "co-consecrated" Schweikert with "Archbishop" Marchenna. It's unclear if "assisted" means co-consecrated or merely helping out.




Furthermore:

http://www.rosarychurch.net/history/canonical_ORCC.html

Archbishop Mathew consecrated Rudolph de Landas Berghes as Regionary Bishop of Scotland in June of 1913.

Furthermore:

https://www.oldromancatholicchicago.org/history.html

Bishop de Landes Berghes                                1917 - 1919

Archbishop Carmel Henry Carfora                 1919 - 1958

Bishop Sigismund Vipartas                              1958 - 1961

Archbishop John E. Schweikert                       1961 - 1988

Archbishop Theodore J. Rematt                      1988 - 2016