Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPV "admission" timeframe  (Read 1421 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
SSPV "admission" timeframe
« on: December 17, 2022, 08:54:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I am a regular attendee of an SSPX chapel. Over the course of the past year or so I have realized that it would be beneficial for my soul to make a general confession, due to the probable invalidity of my prior NO confessions. Now, as I would be making this general confession on the grounds of my NO confessions being invalid, I contacted the SSPV to schedule one as they hold that same opinion, unlike the SSPX. In retrospect I could have scheduled a general confession with an SSPX and not mentioned the reasoning, but what's done is done. I sent them my baptismal record & a video of my baptism (proper form+proper matter=intent is implied), yet they still are hinting at the idea of a conditional baptism. I've had several calls with priests & they seemingly want to take me through the Baltimore Catechism, not sure to what extent.

    My question is, has anyone been through a similar situation and if so, how long was it before you were allowed to receive the sacraments? I'm not too keen on calling quits on the thing, they have all been very kind and helpful, but going into it I did not think it would be this big of a deal.

    Thank you and God Bless


    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4621/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #1 on: December 17, 2022, 10:28:44 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I suggest you contact a CMRI priest if one is available.  I don't think you would be required to do any of this.

    https://cmri.org/cmri-directory-of-traditional-latin-masses/


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #2 on: December 17, 2022, 10:54:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Supposing your Novus Ordo confessions were invalid, so long as you made one valid confession to an FSSPX priest, then all your previous confessions would be covered.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #3 on: December 17, 2022, 11:08:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you went on an Ignatian Retreat with the SSPX, you could do a general Confession on the retreat. 

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #4 on: December 18, 2022, 06:40:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you yourself have a reservation about the validity your Novus Ordo Baptism, and are looking to get conditionally baptized, going through some form of convert instruction is typically the norm. The length would vary by person depending on how much you already know.

    However, based on your post it sounds like you're interested in a general confession, but not in a conditional baptism. In this case, you have a couple options:

    1) if the SSPV chapel in question has Confessions at any time OTHER than before Sunday Mass, just go and do a general Confession during that time without speaking to the Priest about it beforehand.

    2) As mentioned in a previous response, if you can get to an SSPX Ignatian Retreat, making a general confession is part of the retreat, so you could do one then.

    3) If any SSPX chapel within driving distance is going to have a Parish Mission preached by Fr. Alphonsus María (SSPX Redemptorist Priest) anytime soon, he hears general confessions during his retreats.

    4) As you yourself mentioned, you could just make a general confession to an SSPX Priest at the chapel you currently go to. If you're uncomfortable with that because you've already spoken to that Priest about why you want to make one, are there any other SSPX chapels in the state you could make a road trip to for a General Confession? Just tell the Priest you want to.make.one without mentioning the reason.

    5) If your SSPX chapel or one you'd be comfortable driving a distance to has Confession times other than before a Sunday Mass, go and make a General Confession then, without making arrangements beforehand. In reality in this type of situation you don't even need to tell the Priest in the Confessional you're making one. Just tell him all the sins since your last Confession, and then all of the rest after that. 

    If the video of your Novus Ordo baptism shows everything was done correctly, you don't have a good reason to doubt it was valid, and neither does the SSPV. You're validly baptized, and if you've been making regular Confessions to SSPX Priests for the last year that you've been going to Mass there, you've been receiving valid absolution as long as you've confessed all of your known mortal sins since your last Confession, and have true sorrow, purpose of amendment, etc.

    Additionally, you're always free to mention a SPECIFIC sin or two from previous Confessions in a regular Confession anyway, especially if in your current Confession you have nothing mortal to confess. So, if there is any specific sin(s) from previous Confessions you want to mention, just do so when making your regular Confession. Just specify these are already absolved sins.

    If the SSPV Priest(s) you've talked to have met you in peson already, they probably won't let the matter rest without going through with instruction and a conditional baptism, and being they know your face, they probably would refuse you Communion (not certain of this though). But if you've only talked to them on the phone or by email or something, just make your General Confession through one of the ways described above, drop the baptism/confession preparation with them, and go up to the Communion rail and I don't think you should have a problem. 


    Offline AMDGJMJ

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2696
    • Reputation: +1546/-64
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #5 on: December 18, 2022, 07:34:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you have your baptism on video and the form and matter seem legitimate, there is no reason for them to ask to have you conditionally baptized.  I agree with the others who have said here that you should just ask a priest to do a general confession for you.  :cowboy:
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10054
    • Reputation: +5252/-916
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #6 on: December 18, 2022, 07:50:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I am a regular attendee of an SSPX chapel. Over the course of the past year or so I have realized that it would be beneficial for my soul to make a general confession, due to the probable invalidity of my prior NO confessions. Now, as I would be making this general confession on the grounds of my NO confessions being invalid, I contacted the SSPV to schedule one as they hold that same opinion, unlike the SSPX. In retrospect I could have scheduled a general confession with an SSPX and not mentioned the reasoning, but what's done is done. I sent them my baptismal record & a video of my baptism (proper form+proper matter=intent is implied), yet they still are hinting at the idea of a conditional baptism. I've had several calls with priests & they seemingly want to take me through the Baltimore Catechism, not sure to what extent.

    My question is, has anyone been through a similar situation and if so, how long was it before you were allowed to receive the sacraments? I'm not too keen on calling quits on the thing, they have all been very kind and helpful, but going into it I did not think it would be this big of a deal.

    Thank you and God Bless
    I thought this thread was going to be about admission to communion since this is more likely where the SSPV is more stringent. 

    I'm actually surprised by the SSPV response to your situation assuming your baptism was indeed valid.  It seems to me that if they are leaning towards a conditional baptism, the initial instruction in the Baltimore Catechism doesn't add up.  Are you sure they want you to be conditionally baptized?  And if so, what is their reasoning?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #7 on: December 18, 2022, 11:53:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • One does not need a reason to make a general confession.  You can make one at any time ... provided you don't intend to be in there for, oh, 30 minutes during a normal Sunday confession line (so the issue there being practical).  Scrupulous individuals are generally advised to avoid general confessions ... as they tend to make them regularly, always wondering if their past confessions were invalid.  But your reasons seem to be legitimate doubts about the validity of NO Orders, which the SSPV agree with.

    So the holdup here seems to be the question of the Baptism.  I don't know of any Trad group who seriously doubts the validity of NO Baptisms provided proper matter & form were applied.  So I'm not sure what's going on here.  Seems like a bunch of nonsense.  If it weren't for your video of the Baptism, I might recommend a conditional Baptism in that it's not uncommon for Novus Ordite presbyters to play games with the form of the Sacrament, but if you have a video that demonstrates otherwise, I'm not sure what the problem is here.

    Why not just schedule a general with the SSPX priest and just ignore SSPV ... unless they have legitimate reasons for suggesting that you receive conditional Baptism?  You need not explain to SSPX what your reasoning is for the general, as you don't actually have to have one.  It could be just for your spiritual benefit.  In fact, if you can do it quickly, you could probably do it in small pieces during your next few confessions.  At the end of your main confession, just pick either some categories of sin or some period in your life (however you want to break it down), and add some of these past sins at the end of each confession.  There was a Father Alphonsus who filled in for Father Carley when he had his hip surgery, and he was doing general confessions.  He announced from the pulpit that they need not take more than 5 minutes, as "there are only 10 commandments".  All that's required to confess is the category of sin and the number of sins committed.  And he was right.  If you want spiritual direction, guidance, etc. ... you can schedule that at another time.

    Recall also that the invalidity of NO Orders is disputed and doubtful, so it's not of strict obligation to confess past sins confessed to a Novus Ordite presbyter, as there's no requirement to confess doubtful sins.  So this way you could just break up the confession of past sins into small pieces over time until you're caught up and you've effectively confessed your past sins.

    Now, if there's anything in the video that suggests your Baptism may be questionable, that would be a different issue.  I'd love to hear what the SSPV have to say in terms of their rationale for doubting the Baptism.  Ever since the whole +Thuc issue, they've gone uber-scrupulous with regard to the validity of Sacraments.  They've gone down the "one hand" path and were conditionally confirming people who had been confirmed even by Bishop Williamson (because he was in the same ordination class as "one-hand Dan").


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #8 on: December 18, 2022, 12:08:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So, I know in my case, I likely made "sloppy" confessions all the time when I was a Novus Ordite, due to not having been properly catechized regarding what was required for confession.  Novus Ordites spun it as more of a counseling session than for what confession really is.  That's enough to say to the SSPX priest why you want to confess past sins.  But it often happens that people have only a venial sin or two to confess at each confession, and so they'll add sins from their past to the general confessions.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #9 on: December 19, 2022, 09:37:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I suggest you contact a CMRI priest if one is available.  I don't think you would be required to do any of this.

    https://cmri.org/cmri-directory-of-traditional-latin-masses/
    Problem there is the distance, unfortunately. Looking at a 4+ hour drive. I appreciate your suggestion 


    If you yourself have a reservation about the validity your Novus Ordo Baptism, and are looking to get conditionally baptized, going through some form of convert instruction is typically the norm. The length would vary by person depending on how much you already know.

    However, based on your post it sounds like you're interested in a general confession, but not in a conditional baptism. In this case, you have a couple options:

    Thank you for the detailed response. I do not doubt the baptism in the slightest, the minister of the baptism used the correct from with an infusion of water at each of the names of the Holy Trinity. They have not told me explicitly that I need to be conditionally baptized, just mentioned multiple times that it's the "standard" procedure.  I will probably feel it out for another week or so to see where they want to go with things, if it's going to be a drawn out process I'll go to an SSPX priest

    I thought this thread was going to be about admission to communion since this is more likely where the SSPV is more stringent. 

    I'm actually surprised by the SSPV response to your situation assuming your baptism was indeed valid.  It seems to me that if they are leaning towards a conditional baptism, the initial instruction in the Baltimore Catechism doesn't add up.  Are you sure they want you to be conditionally baptized?  And if so, what is their reasoning?
    It may have been me just misunderstanding. Like I said above they didn't explicitly tell me I need one, just that it's what they generally do. 


    One does not need a reason to make a general confession.  You can make one at any time ... provided you don't intend to be in there for, oh, 30 minutes during a normal Sunday confession line (so the issue there being practical).  Scrupulous individuals are generally advised to avoid general confessions ... as they tend to make them regularly, always wondering if their past confessions were invalid.  But your reasons seem to be legitimate doubts about the validity of NO Orders, which the SSPV agree with.

    So the holdup here seems to be the question of the Baptism.  I don't know of any Trad group who seriously doubts the validity of NO Baptisms provided proper matter & form were applied.  So I'm not sure what's going on here.  Seems like a bunch of nonsense.  If it weren't for your video of the Baptism, I might recommend a conditional Baptism in that it's not uncommon for Novus Ordite presbyters to play games with the form of the Sacrament, but if you have a video that demonstrates otherwise, I'm not sure what the problem is here.
    Thank you for the response. If they do try to go the conditional baptism route, which isn't clear yet, I will just go to an SSPX priest. I do understand that repeating NO confessions isn't absolutely necessary, but it would bring a great deal of peace to mind to dispel any doubts I may have. 

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: SSPV "admission" timeframe
    « Reply #10 on: December 27, 2022, 09:19:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • An update to this:

    The SSPV priest I had been in contact with said it would be more prudent to go to my regular confessor & more convenient due to the length of the drive out to the SSPV chapel. I have scheduled a general confession at the SSPX chapel I regularly attend. Thank you all for your advice, I greatly appreciate it. God Bless