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Author Topic: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert  (Read 1897 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2025, 04:50:29 PM »
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  • And what priest is going to marry a couple without a marriage license?
    If the government says no to marriage because some countries you need their permission to get married under 18, will the priest still marry them?

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 12:55:55 AM »
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  • If the government says no to marriage because some countries you need their permission to get married under 18, will the priest still marry them?
    Lex injustia non est lex


    this “law” is particularly egregious as it could lead to the damnation of some men due to sins of the flesh 


    Offline phillips

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 05:37:39 AM »
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  • And what priest is going to marry a couple without a marriage license?
    actually, a catholic couple can get married without a priest marrying them and without the state involved as long as the couple has witnesses to their marriage. they can get married by professing vows to themselves with witnesses, and that marriage is still valid to the catholic church

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 06:47:28 AM »
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  • actually, a catholic couple can get married without a priest marrying them and without the state involved as long as the couple has witnesses to their marriage. they can get married by professing vows to themselves with witnesses, and that marriage is still valid to the catholic church
    Interesting, I knew that baptism and matrimony did not require a valid minister but I am unsure of the details (for matrimony). So lets assume that a man wishes to marry a 16yr old girl,, she agrees, both parents agree, the government says no (though can legally fornicate in most western nations/state) and the SSPX says no. How would a valid marriage work here? Also why then does the SSPX like to brag about having 'authority' to have confessions and marriages if you can marry without a priest?

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 08:11:27 AM »
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  • Interesting, I knew that baptism and matrimony did not require a valid minister but I am unsure of the details (for matrimony). So lets assume that a man wishes to marry a 16yr old girl,, she agrees, both parents agree, the government says no (though can legally fornicate in most western nations/state) and the SSPX says no. How would a valid marriage work here? Also why then does the SSPX like to brag about having 'authority' to have confessions and marriages if you can marry without a priest?
    The man and woman being married are the ministers of the sacrament of matrimony. Canon law allows marriage to be contracted without the presence of a priest if no priest will be able to be present within one month. To your question, I believe the state would have no right to forbid that marriage. That contradicts ecclesiastical law as Canon law gives the ages of 16 for men and 14 for women as minimum ages for entering into a valid marriage, and the parents of the girl consent

    Quote
    1. Only the supreme authority of the Church declares authentically whenever divine law impedes or invalidates marriage.

    § 2. It also belongs exclusively to the same supreme authority to constitute, through either
    universal or particular law, other impeding or diriment impediments to marriage for the baptized
    If the SSPX refused, the couple should try other trad groups. If they all refused, I think they would be able to validly and licitly marry, in the presence of witnesses only, according to Canon 1098
    If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you [John 15:108


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 04:03:06 PM »
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  • The man and woman being married are the ministers of the sacrament of matrimony. Canon law allows marriage to be contracted without the presence of a priest if no priest will be able to be present within one month. To your question, I believe the state would have no right to forbid that marriage. That contradicts ecclesiastical law as Canon law gives the ages of 16 for men and 14 for women as minimum ages for entering into a valid marriage, and the parents of the girl consent
    If the SSPX refused, the couple should try other trad groups. If they all refused, I think they would be able to validly and licitly marry, in the presence of witnesses only, according to Canon 1098
    What if there is no other trad group around in the local area? SSPX recommends 22 for marriage which is why I bring up this hypothetical.

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #51 on: Yesterday at 04:09:49 PM »
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  • I wouldn’t get your hopes up, I doubt the parents of that 14-16 year old girl will consent.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 04:55:38 PM »
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  • I wouldn’t get your hopes up, I doubt the parents of that 14-16 year old girl will consent.
    This is about the theoretical. Your answer isn't helpful.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 04:58:27 PM »
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  • The man and woman being married are the ministers of the sacrament of matrimony. Canon law allows marriage to be contracted without the presence of a priest if no priest will be able to be present within one month. To your question, I believe the state would have no right to forbid that marriage. That contradicts ecclesiastical law as Canon law gives the ages of 16 for men and 14 for women as minimum ages for entering into a valid marriage, and the parents of the girl consent
    If the SSPX refused, the couple should try other trad groups. If they all refused, I think they would be able to validly and licitly marry, in the presence of witnesses only, according to Canon 1098
    Yes. And it won’t be illegal since the state doesn’t call it marriage anyway

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 10:28:03 PM »
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  • I wouldn’t get your hopes up, I doubt the parents of that 14-16 year old girl will consent.
    The 14-year-old cannot consent to anything, period. And no priest or Trad group would approve because it is highly illegal. There's a minimum age to marry in most states.

    Offline phillips

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 10:55:21 PM »
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  • The man and woman being married are the ministers of the sacrament of matrimony. Canon law allows marriage to be contracted without the presence of a priest if no priest will be able to be present within one month. To your question, I believe the state would have no right to forbid that marriage. That contradicts ecclesiastical law as Canon law gives the ages of 16 for men and 14 for women as minimum ages for entering into a valid marriage, and the parents of the girl consent
    If the SSPX refused, the couple should try other trad groups. If they all refused, I think they would be able to validly and licitly marry, in the presence of witnesses only, according to Canon 1098
    correct


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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 10:59:33 PM »
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  • The 14-year-old cannot consent to anything, period. And no priest or Trad group would approve because it is highly illegal. There's a minimum age to marry in most states.
    Actually most European countries have an age of consent law of 14 for girls. Secondly canon law states that women can get married as young as 14 with parental consent.

    You need to repent from your feminism.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 11:03:00 PM »
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  • The 14-year-old cannot consent to anything, period. 
    This statement, and the very structure of the wording reeks of reddit/feminism.

    The following image is how I imagine people who make such statements.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #58 on: Today at 01:51:05 AM »
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  • Actually most European countries have an age of consent law of 14 for girls. Secondly canon law states that women can get married as young as 14 with parental consent.

    You need to repent from your feminism.
    The term is pearl-clutching.


    Quote
    "Pearl clutching" is a term that describes a disapproving or overly shocked reaction to something, often with an exaggerated display of moral disapproval or shock. It's often used to suggest someone is being unnecessarily sensitive or reacting more strongly than is warranted.

    And it perfectly describes their comment. They ignore, history, biology and Canon Law in favour of feminism. There have been plenty of Saints married younger than 16. To say that no 14yr old can ever consent is completely disingenuous. And frankly it's vile when you consider that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave consent to conceive by the Holy Ghost, oh but I guess our Blessed Lady was too young to consent. :facepalm:

    Quote
    List of Roman Catholic Saints Married Under 16

    • Saint Mary, Mother of Jesus (1st century, married c. 13–15 AD)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Likely 12–15, based on Jєωιѕн cultural norms where girls were betrothed or married shortly after puberty.
    • Husband: Saint Joseph.
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Likely 20–40. Tradition varies; some sources (e.g., Protoevangelium of James) suggest Joseph was an older widower (possibly 30–40), while others propose he was younger (20–30) to align with working as a carpenter and cultural norms for first marriages.


    • Saint Priscilla (Prisca) (1st century, married c. 40–50 AD) 
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Possibly under 16, inferred from Roman and Jєωιѕн customs where girls married as young as 12.
    • Husband: Saint Aquila. 
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Likely 20–30. No specific age is recorded, but Roman men typically married in their 20s, and Aquila’s role as a tentmaker suggests he was an adult of working age.

    • Saint Margaret of Scotland (c. 1045–1093, married c. 1070)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 14–15.
    • Husband: King Malcolm III of Scotland.
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Approximately 35–40. Malcolm III was born around 1031, making him in his late 30s at the time of their marriage in 1070.

    • Saint Anne (1st century BC–1st century AD, married c. 20–10 BC) 
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Likely 12–15, based on Jєωιѕн cultural norms where girls were married shortly after puberty. 
    • Husband: Saint Joachim. 
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Likely 20–35. As a man of property and piety, Joachim was probably in his 20s or 30s, typical for Jєωιѕн men marrying for the first time.

    • Saint Perpetua (c. 181–203, married c. 198–200)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Likely 14–16. Perpetua was a 22-year-old mother at her martyrdom in 203, with a young son, suggesting she married around 14–16, common for Roman noblewomen.
    • Husband: Unnamed, possibly a Roman of noble status.
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Likely 25–35. Roman men of the elite typically married in their mid-20s to 30s, especially to younger brides.

    • Saint Felicity (Felicitas) (c. 180–203, married c. 195–200)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Likely 12–15. Felicity was a slave and pregnant during her martyrdom at around 23, implying marriage or a union in her early teens, common for slaves or lower classes in Roman society.
    • Husband: Unnamed, likely a fellow slave or freedman.
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Likely 20–30. Male slaves or freedmen typically entered unions in their 20s, though records are scarce.

    • Saint Hedwig (c. 1174–1243, married c. 1186–1189)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 12–15. Born around 1174, Hedwig married Henry I the Bearded of Silesia in her early teens, typical for noblewomen in medieval Europe.
    • Husband: Henry I the Bearded, Duke of Silesia.
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Approximately 20–25. Henry was born around 1165–1170, making him in his early 20s at the time of their marriage.

    • Saint Elizabeth of Portugal (c. 1271–1336, married c. 1282–1283)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 11–12. Born in 1271, Elizabeth was married to King Denis of Portugal around 1282, as was common for royal alliances.
    • Husband: King Denis of Portugal.
    • Husband’s Estimated Age: Approximately 20–22. Denis was born around 1261, making him about a decade older than Elizabeth at their marriage.

    • Saint Rita of Cascia (c. 1381–1457, married c. 1393)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 12–14. Born around 1381, Rita was married in her early teens, as was common in late medieval Italy.
    • Husband: Paolo Mancini.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 20–30, typical for men in Italian towns marrying young brides for family stability, not political gain.

    • Saint Frances of Rome (c. 1384–1440, married c. 1396)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 12–13. Born in 1384, Frances was married at around 12, common for Roman families.
    • Husband: Lorenzo Ponziani.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 25–35, as Roman noblemen, even in non-political marriages, often married later to younger brides.

    • Saint Catherine of Genoa (c. 1447–1510, married c. 1463)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 15–16. Born in 1447, Catherine was married at around 15 or 16
    • Husband: Giuliano Adorno.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 25–40, as Genoese men of the merchant or noble class often married later, even in non-political unions.
    • Saint Jane Frances de Chantal (c. 1572–1641, married c. 1588)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 15. Born in 1572, Jane was married at around 15, typical for French gentry.
    • Husband: Christophe de Rabutin, Baron de Chantal.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 20–30, as French noblemen in local, non-political marriages often married in their 20s

    • Saint Umiliana de’ Cerchi (c. 1219–1246, married c. 1233–1234)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 14–15. Born around 1219, Umiliana was married in her mid-teens, common for Florentine families.
    • Husband: Unnamed Florentine merchant.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 25–35, as Italian merchants in the 13th century often married younger women for family stability, not political gain.
    • Saint Rose of Viterbo (c. 1233–1251, married c. 1245–1247)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 12–14. Born around 1233, Rose was reportedly married briefly in her early teens, per some hagiographical traditions.
    • Husband: Unnamed local man from Viterbo.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 20–30, typical for men in central Italian towns marrying young brides for familial reasons.
    • Saint Angela Merici (c. 1474–1540, married c. 1488–1490)
    • Wife’s Age at Marriage: Approximately 14–15. Born around 1474, Angela was reportedly married young, per some biographies, before her religious calling.
    • Husband: Unnamed man from Brescia.
    • Husband’s Speculative Age: Likely 25–35, as men in northern Italian towns often married younger women in non-political unions.
    I asked an AI to give me Saints married under 16, you should really consider why I made this post. I really HATE feminism.


    Now let's look at age distribution for 'all Saints'.


    Quote
    Age Distribution: Using the prior lists and norms, I’ll estimate the proportion of married saints who wed at each age threshold. The lists provided 14 saints married under 16 from 1000–1850 (non-political, excluding refusals), with ages clustering at 12–15. For pre-1000 saints (e.g., Mary, Anne, Perpetua), similar patterns apply. Assume:
    Under 30: Nearly all married saints (95%), as later marriages were rare for women canonized (e.g., Monica at ~17–18 is an outlier).

    Under 25: ~90%, as most married in their teens or early 20s.

    Under 20: ~85%, given the prevalence of teen marriages.

    Under 18: ~80%, as many married at 12–16.

    Under 16: ~60%, based on lists showing frequent marriages at 12–15.

    Under 14: ~30%, as marriages at 12–13 were common but less frequent than 14–15.



    Total Saints: ~3,000.

    Married Saints: ~225 (7.5% of 3,000).

    Percentages of Total Saints Married at Each Age:
    Under 30: 95% of 225 = 214 saints; 214 ÷ 3,000 = 7.13%.

    Under 25: 90% of 225 = 203 saints; 203 ÷ 3,000 = 6.77%.

    Under 20: 85% of 225 = 191 saints; 191 ÷ 3,000 = 6.37%.

    Under 18: 80% of 225 = 180 saints; 180 ÷ 3,000 = 6.00%.

    Under 16: 60% of 225 = 135 saints; 135 ÷ 3,000 = 4.50%.

    Under 14: 30% of 225 = 68 saints; 68 ÷ 3,000 = 2.27%.


    The estimated percentages of Roman Catholic saints canonized before Pope Pius XII’s death in 1958 who were married before the specified ages are:

    Married under 30: ~7.13%

    Married under 25: ~6.77%

    Married under 20: ~6.37%

    Married under 18: ~6.00%

    Married under 16: ~4.50%

    Married under 14: ~2.27%


    Total Number of Saints
    Estimate: Approximately 3,000 saints canonized before 1958, based on ~2,500 pre-1588 (early martyrs, apostles, local saints) plus ~500 from 1588 to 1958 (formal canonizations post-Sixtus V). This is a rough estimate, as no definitive count exists (web sources like  suggest over 10,000 total saints, including post-1958).

     Estimating Married Saints
    Proportion: Married saints are a minority due to the Church’s emphasis on celibacy and martyrdom. Assume 7.5% of saints were married, or 225 married saints (7.5% of 3,000), aligning with the rarity of married saints in hagiographies.

    Marriage Age Distribution

    Historical Norms:

    Early Christian/Roman (1st–5th centuries): Girls married at 12–15, rarely later.

    Medieval Europe (1000–1500): Noble girls married at 12–16, commoners at 14–18; canon law allowed 12 for girls.

    Early Modern (1500–1850): Girls married at 16–20, though earlier marriages persisted in some regions.

    Prior Lists: The lists provided 14 saints married under 16 from 1000–1850 (e.g., Rita at 12–14, Frances at 12–13, Catherine at 15–16, Umiliana at 14–15), with most clustering at 12–15. Few married saints wed after 20, as later marriages are less docuмented, and unmarried women often entered religious life.


    Age Range Distribution: Estimating marriages within the specified ranges is challenging due to sparse records. I’ll assign probabilities based on norms, examples from prior lists, and the prevalence of early marriages among canonized women:

    14 and under: Very common, especially in early and medieval periods (e.g., Rita, Frances, Rose of Viterbo at 12–14); ~35% of married saints, as many married at 12–14 per canon law and norms.

    15–16: Common (e.g., Catherine of Genoa, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Angela Merici); ~25%, as this was a frequent marriage age before religious life.

    17–18: Less common, as many married earlier (e.g., Monica at ~17–18); ~15%.

    19–20: Rare, as most married in their teens; ~10%.

    21–25: Very rare, as women unmarried by 20 often became religious; ~8%.

    26–30: Extremely rare, as canonized women rarely married this late; ~4%.

    30+: Nearly nonexistent, as late marriages were uncommon for canonized women; ~3%.

    These sum to 100%, covering the likely distribution based on historical patterns and prior lists. The heavy weighting toward 14 and under and 15–16 reflects the prevalence of early marriages in the periods when most saints lived.



    Calculating Percentages
    Total Saints: 3,000.

    Married Saints: 225.

    Percentages for Each Age Range:
    14 and under:
    Married Saints: 35% of 225 = 79 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 79 ÷ 3,000 = 2.63%.

    % of Married Saints: 79 ÷ 225 = 35.00%.

    15–16:
    Married Saints: 25% of 225 = 56 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 56 ÷ 3,000 = 1.87%.

    % of Married Saints: 56 ÷ 225 = 25.00%.

    17–18:
    Married Saints: 15% of 225 = 34 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 34 ÷ 3,000 = 1.13%.

    % of Married Saints: 34 ÷ 225 = 15.00%.

    19–20:

    Married Saints: 10% of 225 = 23 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 23 ÷ 3,000 = 0.77%.

    % of Married Saints: 23 ÷ 225 = 10.00%.

    21–25:
    Married Saints: 8% of 225 = 18 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 18 ÷ 3,000 = 0.60%.

    % of Married Saints: 18 ÷ 225 = 8.00%.

    26–30:
    Married Saints: 4% of 225 = 9 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 9 ÷ 3,000 = 0.30%.

    % of Married Saints: 9 ÷ 225 = 4.00%.

    30+:
    Married Saints: 3% of 225 = 7 saints.

    % of Total Saints: 7 ÷ 3,000 = 0.23%.

    % of Married Saints: 7 ÷ 225 = 3.00%.

    Final Answer

    The estimated percentages of Roman Catholic saints canonized before Pope Pius XII’s death (1958) who were married within the specified age ranges are:




    Notes and Limitations
    Data Gaps: No comprehensive database lists saints’ marriage ages. Estimates rely on historical norms and prior lists (e.g., Rita, Frances, Umiliana at 12–15), which may not be exhaustive.

    Assumptions: 3,000 total saints and 7.5% married are informed estimates. Age range distributions are based on norms and examples, as exact ages are rarely recorded.

    Distribution Rationale: The heavy weighting toward 14 and under (35%) and 15–16 (25%) reflects frequent early marriages in early Christian, medieval, and early modern periods. Later ages (21+) are less common, as unmarried women often entered religious life.

    Sources: Web sources (,) confirm saint counts and canonization history but lack marriage data. Prior lists (e.g., Rita, Frances, Catherine) guide age estimates.

    Critical Notes: The Church’s focus on celibate saints underrepresents married saints. Early marriages dominate due to historical norms, but precise age ranges are estimates due to vague records.

    As you can see most Canonised Saints got married 14 and under. According to this data 75% of Saints got married 18 and under. Look if I see stupid feminist garbage I will utterly annihilate your delusional brainwashing with facts. Cope and Seethe. 14 is fine for a women to get married provided their parents agree.:cowboy::incense::popcorn:

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marrying Later in Life as a Convert
    « Reply #59 on: Today at 02:10:32 AM »
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  • The term is pearl-clutching.

    And it perfectly describes their comment. They ignore, history, biology and Canon Law in favour of feminism. There have been plenty of Saints married younger than 16. To say that no 14yr old can ever consent is completely disingenuous. And frankly it's vile when you consider that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave consent to conceive by the Holy Ghost, oh but I guess our Blessed Lady was too young to consent. :facepalm:
    I asked an AI to give me Saints married under 16, you should really consider why I made this post. I really HATE feminism.


    Now let's look at age distribution for 'all Saints'.

    As you can see most Canonised Saints got married 14 and under. According to this data 75% of Saints got married 18 and under. Look if I see stupid feminist garbage I will utterly annihilate your delusional brainwashing with facts. Cope and Seethe. 14 is fine for a women to get married provided their parents agree.:cowboy::incense::popcorn:
    If you include political marriages this number increases to 40% 14 and under.


    More info.

    Quote
    Dominance of Early Marriage: 60% of married saints wed at 16 or younger (35% at 14 and under, 25% at 15–16), reflecting early Christian and medieval norms, especially for noblewomen in political marriages (e.g., Hedwig, Elizabeth of Portugal).

    Rarity of Later Marriage: Only 15% wed after 20 (8% at 21–25, 4% at 26–30, 3% at 30+), as canonized women unmarried by their 20s often entered religious life.

    Bias: Saints’ data skews toward elite women (nobles, queens) or those with exceptional piety, not representing the general population.
    Quote
    European Marriage Ages Throughout History

    I’ll break down European marriage ages by key periods, focusing on women (as saints’ data primarily reflects female marriage ages), using historical demographic studies and norms. Periods include pre-Christian, early Christian, medieval, early modern, and modern eras, up to ~1900 (modern era start, aligning with demographic shifts).

    1. Pre-Christian Europe (Before Christ)

    Greek World (c. 800–300 BC):
    Women: Married at 14–18, often to men in their 30s, to maximize fertility (e.g., Athenian girls at ~15, Spartan girls at ~18 for physical maturity).

    Men: Typically 25–35, reflecting economic stability needs.

    Context: Elite families arranged early marriages for alliances, similar to later political saint marriages.

    Roman Republic and Empire (c. 500 BC–AD 300):
    Women: Legal minimum age was 12 (Lex Julia), with most marrying at 12–16, especially in elite families (e.g., Augustus’ daughter Julia at 14). Commoners married slightly later, ~15–18.

    Men: 20–30, often older for senators (~25–40).

    Context: Early marriage ensured lineage and property transfer, mirroring saints like Perpetua (married ~14–16).

    Celtic/Germanic Tribes (c. 500 BC–AD 100):
    Women: Limited data, but likely 15–20, as tribal societies valued fertility but delayed marriage until physical maturity.

    Men: 20–30, tied to warrior status or land ownership.

    Context: Less formalized than Roman norms, with fewer parallels to saints’ elite marriages.



    Summary Comparison

    Pre-Christian and Early Christian (500 BC–AD 1000):
    Saints: 60% married at 16 or younger (35% at 14 and under, 25% at 15–16), aligning closely with Roman and early Christian elite women (12–16, e.g., Mary, Perpetua).

    Europeans: Elite women married at 12–16 (Greek/Roman), non-elites at 15–20 (Celtic/Germanic). Saints’ data matches elite patterns but underrepresents later non-elite marriages.

    Medieval (1000–1500):
    Saints: 60% under 16, reflecting noblewomen’s early political marriages (e.g., Hedwig, Elizabeth of Portugal at 12–15).

    Europeans: Nobles at 12–16, commoners at 15–20. Saints’ data mirrors noble patterns but diverges from commoners’ later marriages.

    Early Modern (1500–1800):
    Saints: 25% at 15–16 (e.g., Rita, Frances), still early, reflecting Southern European norms.

    Europeans: Nobles at 14–18, commoners at 18–25 (Western Europe). Saints’ early marriages align with Southern elites but contrast with the rising Western European Marriage Pattern.

    Modern (1800–1900):
    Saints: Outliers like Elizabeth Ann Seton (~15–16) reflect rare early marriages.

    Europeans: Most at 20–25, with early marriages declining. Saints’ data is anachronistic, skewed by earlier centuries’ norms.
    Compared to the modern Era

    Quote
    Contemporary Era (1900–2025)
    Women:
    Early 20th Century (1900–1950): Mean age 22–26 in Western Europe, per demographic data (e.g., UK ~23 in 1920s, France ~24). Rural areas (e.g., Southern/Eastern Europe) slightly earlier (20–22).

    Late 20th Century (1950–2000): Mean age rose to 25–28, driven by education, women’s workforce participation, and cultural shifts (e.g., UK ~26 by 1990s).

    21st Century (2000–2025): Mean age 28–32 in Western Europe (e.g., Eurostat 2023: UK 31, Germany ~30). Southern Europe slightly lower (28–30, e.g., Italy). Child marriage (<18) nearly eliminated, with legal minimums at 16–18 (e.g., EU laws allow 16 with parental consent in some countries).

    Context: Urbanization, education, and gender equality delayed marriage. Early marriages (<18) are rare, mostly in marginalized communities or non-European contexts. Data from  reflects rising ages globally, with Europe leading in late marriage.

    Similarity: None significant, as saints’ data (65% under 16) reflects pre-modern norms irrelevant to 1900–2025. Elizabeth Ann Seton’s 15–16 marriage (late 18th century) is closer to early 20th-century rural outliers (20–22) than modern norms.

    Difference: Saints’ 40% at 14 and under and 25% at 15–16 are starkly anachronistic compared to 1900–2025, where marriages under 18 are <1% in Europe (Eurostat). The 10% at 19–20 and 6% at 21–25 are closer to early 20th-century norms (22–26) but far from 21st-century averages (28–32). The 0.42% at 30+ is lower than modern late marriages (50% over 30 in some countries).

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    Overall Comparison
    Pre-Christian and Early Christian (500 BC–AD 1000):
    Saints: 65% at 16 or younger aligns with Roman/early Christian elite women (12–16, e.g., Mary, Perpetua).

    Europeans: Elite at 12–16, non-elites at 15–20. Saints match elite patterns but underrepresent later non-elite marriages.

    Medieval (1000–1500):
    Saints: 65% under 16 mirrors noblewomen’s political marriages (12–16, e.g., Hedwig).

    Europeans: Nobles at 12–16, commoners at 15–20. Saints reflect elite norms, not commoners.

    Early Modern (1500–1800):
    Saints: 25% at 15–16 aligns with Southern European nobles (14–18, e.g., Rita).

    Europeans: Nobles at 14–18, commoners at 18–25. Saints’ early marriages contrast with Western Europe’s late marriage pattern.

    Modern (1800–1900):
    Saints: 65% under 16 is outdated compared to 20–25 norm.

    Europeans: Most at 20–25, early marriages rare. Saints’ data is anachronistic.

    Contemporary (1900–2025):
    Saints: 65% under 16 is entirely misaligned with 22–32 norm.

    Europeans: Mean age rose from ~22–26 (1900–1950) to 28–32 (2000–2025). Marriages under 18 are negligible, making saints’ early marriage patterns irrelevant.

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    Bias Summary: The 65% of married saints wed at 16 or younger (40% at 14 and under, 25% at 15–16) reflects a preference for young, pious women, often elite or martyred, who married early (e.g., Rita, Hedwig). The 10.42% marrying after 20 (6% at 21–25, 4% at 26–30, 0.42% at 30+) is low compared to European populations, where later marriages became common, especially post-1500. This bias stems from the Church’s emphasis on virginity, martyrdom, or exceptional piety, which favored young women over those marrying later in more typical circuмstances.
    So you can see that most of the younger marriages for the Saints is bias. More in the next post.