Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on January 14, 2024, 09:34:54 PM
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Hi, I've been lurking these forums for 6 months, coming back to the faith after 20 years. I'm in a civil marriage with a non-Christian woman and we have a 4 year old son. We've started going to mass but I've not been able to receive Communion as we're cohabiting. We've been talking about getting her baptized and us marrying through the Church. She hasn't been enthusiastic about this but it seems like she'll go along. She had been interested in converting to Protestantism from a friend and that's what got me to look into it, then I looked into our local Novus Ordo, then I thankfully found the SSPX, the Resistance and traditional Catholicism. She unfortunately doesn't like the rules of traditional Catholicism very much. She particularly doesn't like that I asked her to stop wearing skin tight work out clothes in public and that I got rid of the TV.
Our relationship hasn't been great. And it was very bad the first year or two. We hardly knew each other when she got pregnant and I married her so she can stay in the country (she's from Southeast Asia). I was resentful and acted that way. The plan was if things don't work out, we can separate.
She recently threatened divorce again and said she doesn't respect me. Now I'm wondering if we should just end it. I've kept the relationship going and have been hoping through prayer and grace, I'd be a better husband. There are things I don't like about her and I hope this will change too. But the main reason I keep fighting to keep us together despite the fact we don't like each other very much is for our 4 year old son.
But since this latest instance of her trying to walk out, I'm not so sure anymore. I've lost some confidence in her and I'm angry. My understanding is that because this is a civil marriage getting a divorce is not a mortal sin and won't block me from Communion. I see the only options are either to divorce or to marry in the Catholic Church. Cohabiting is no longer an option as I no longer want to live in sin. Wondering people's thoughts on whether it's best to marry without love for the betterment of a child.
C
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Any chance you could get custody?
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I don't mean to make light of your post, but you really needed some commas in there.
Marry, without love for son
or
Marry without love, for son
English strikes again.
I would speak with a traditional priest about it, if possible.
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It doesn't sound like she will stay with you. If she gets baptized and you two marry, you will be in a true, indisoluble marriage. And if it falls apart, you'll need to commit to celibacy for the remainder of her life. Are you ready for that?
I don't see how this marriage would be in the interest of your son if she is already threatening divorce. Sounds like you two are bound to split up no matter what.
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It sounds like she has a relatively mild temperament if she's willing to consider becoming Catholic for you. I know you've said that life hasn't been great, but I've heard much worse situations. Consider that you've changed a lot in six months and be patient. Do you have a Traditional priest you can talk to about your situation?
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Hi, I've been lurking these forums for 6 months, coming back to the faith after 20 years. I'm in a civil marriage with a non-Christian woman and we have a 4 year old son. We've started going to mass but I've not been able to receive Communion as we're cohabiting. We've been talking about getting her baptized and us marrying through the Church. She hasn't been enthusiastic about this but it seems like she'll go along. She had been interested in converting to Protestantism from a friend and that's what got me to look into it, then I looked into our local Novus Ordo, then I thankfully found the SSPX, the Resistance and traditional Catholicism. She unfortunately doesn't like the rules of traditional Catholicism very much. She particularly doesn't like that I asked her to stop wearing skin tight work out clothes in public and that I got rid of the TV.
Our relationship hasn't been great. And it was very bad the first year or two. We hardly knew each other when she got pregnant and I married her so she can stay in the country (she's from Southeast Asia). I was resentful and acted that way. The plan was if things don't work out, we can separate.
She recently threatened divorce again and said she doesn't respect me. Now I'm wondering if we should just end it. I've kept the relationship going and have been hoping through prayer and grace, I'd be a better husband. There are things I don't like about her and I hope this will change too. But the main reason I keep fighting to keep us together despite the fact we don't like each other very much is for our 4 year old son.
But since this latest instance of her trying to walk out, I'm not so sure anymore. I've lost some confidence in her and I'm angry. My understanding is that because this is a civil marriage getting a divorce is not a mortal sin and won't block me from Communion. I see the only options are either to divorce or to marry in the Catholic Church. Cohabiting is no longer an option as I no longer want to live in sin. Wondering people's thoughts on whether it's best to marry without love for the betterment of a child.
C
Regarding her clothing you have done well, a women should not wear such attire, especially not in public. Don't compromise on the Catholic faith as your salvation is on the line here.
It seems she doesn't understand that Protestantism is a false religion and the fact she dislikes how strict the truth is tells me she is more interested in false piety and wants to put herself first above God and others.
I think the others will.give you better relationship advice than me but make sure you are praying always.
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It doesn't sound like she will stay with you. If she gets baptized and you two marry, you will be in a true, indisoluble marriage. And if it falls apart, you'll need to commit to celibacy for the remainder of her life. Are you ready for that?
I don't see how this marriage would be in the interest of your son if she is already threatening divorce. Sounds like you two are bound to split up no matter what.
If they were both non religious even their civil marriage is indissoluble.
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Any chance you could get custody?
I had imagined joint custody out of fairness. As for full custody, I could maybe make it work as I work from home. It's just a demanding job and I don't have the support family or friends here. It would be difficult but doable.
I don't mean to make light of your post, but you really needed some commas in there.
Oh no. I was so concerned about the post content, I didn't think too much about the title. I've never posted on a forum before. :facepalm:
It sounds like she has a relatively mild temperament if she's willing to consider becoming Catholic for you. I know you've said that life hasn't been great, but I've heard much worse situations. Consider that you've changed a lot in six months and be patient.
This is where I'm holding out hope. Patience might be in order. I would like to accelerate it however. Do you have a book you could recommend her? She's not a native English speaker so anything with archaic sounding English might be too difficult. Or any other recommendations like a podcast? I'm probably not the best apologist for her.
Do you have a Traditional priest you can talk to about your situation?
I had talked with a sedevacantist priest a few months ago about the sacraments. I don't plan to become sedevacantist because I'm just trying to understand the faith at the moment and not make major decisions. But I suppose I'll call him tomorrow and explain to him the situation.
Regarding her clothing you have done well, a women should not wear such attire, especially not in public. Don't compromise on the Catholic faith as your salvation is on the line here.
It seems she doesn't understand that Protestantism is a false religion and the fact she dislikes how strict the truth is tells me she is more interested in false piety and wants to put herself first above God and others.
I think the others will.give you better relationship advice than me but make sure you are praying always.
I have to pick and choose my battles. She has stated she doesn't respect me so I have little to work with. I'll hold the line on this one.
If they were both non religious even their civil marriage is indissoluble.
Does that include if I'm baptized Catholic? I always considered myself Catholic but lapsed. We didn't marry in the Catholic Church because it was strictly to keep her in the states.
It doesn't sound like she will stay with you. If she gets baptized and you two marry, you will be in a true, indisoluble marriage. And if it falls apart, you'll need to commit to celibacy for the remainder of her life. Are you ready for that?
I don't see how this marriage would be in the interest of your son if she is already threatening divorce. Sounds like you two are bound to split up no matter what.
I'm not sure I'd find another wife as I'm in my late 30s. But still, I would like the option of course. That's why I'm hesitant here.
C
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Please talk to the sedevacantist priest.
You should not marry unless your wife sincerely converts and won't leave you.
You're in a very tough situation, I recommend praying the 15 decades of the rosary each day if you can.
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You should not marry unless your wife sincerely converts and won't leave you.
Since we've said "talk to a priest" 3 times now, I think it's fair game to toss in my opinion. :smirk:
I don't understand the logic from the above poster. I'm going to answer the original question and say "yes" you should stay in a so-so relationship for the sake of your son.
The standard divorce arrangement looks something like you paying a large portion of your wages in child support just to see your child on some weekends and holidays. There's slim chance of you, as the father, getting a better arrangement than that. You have the best chance of teaching your son your own values and the Catholic Faith by being there for as long and as much as possible. The fact that the Church allows for Catholics to marry non-Catholics as long as they agree to raise the children Catholic shows the priority order. You have a greater responsibility for raising your son than you do in converting your spouse. Your marriage might technically be in a state that you can walk away from, but the reality is that your family became permanent four years ago (five, really) when your son became part of the equation.
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Does that include if I'm baptized Catholic? I always considered myself Catholic but lapsed. We didn't marry in the Catholic Church because it was strictly to keep her in the states.
I would reccomend you read through this thread particularly this post.
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/are-people-married-in-non-catholic-ceremonies-really-married/msg859528/#msg859528
Obviously if your wife converts that is the best case scenario. Since you have a child and all.
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I would reccomend you read through this thread particularly this post.
https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/are-people-married-in-non-catholic-ceremonies-really-married/msg859528/#msg859528
Obviously if your wife converts that is the best case scenario. Since you have a child and all.
OP were you raised Catholic? And what about your wife? Baptised/raised religious at all?
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Hi, I've been lurking these forums for 6 months, coming back to the faith after 20 years. I'm in a civil marriage with a non-Christian woman and we have a 4 year old son. We've started going to mass but I've not been able to receive Communion as we're cohabiting. We've been talking about getting her baptized and us marrying through the Church. She hasn't been enthusiastic about this but it seems like she'll go along. She had been interested in converting to Protestantism from a friend and that's what got me to look into it, then I looked into our local Novus Ordo, then I thankfully found the SSPX, the Resistance and traditional Catholicism. She unfortunately doesn't like the rules of traditional Catholicism very much. She particularly doesn't like that I asked her to stop wearing skin tight work out clothes in public and that I got rid of the TV.
Our relationship hasn't been great. And it was very bad the first year or two. We hardly knew each other when she got pregnant and I married her so she can stay in the country (she's from Southeast Asia). I was resentful and acted that way. The plan was if things don't work out, we can separate.
She recently threatened divorce again and said she doesn't respect me. Now I'm wondering if we should just end it. I've kept the relationship going and have been hoping through prayer and grace, I'd be a better husband. There are things I don't like about her and I hope this will change too. But the main reason I keep fighting to keep us together despite the fact we don't like each other very much is for our 4 year old son.
But since this latest instance of her trying to walk out, I'm not so sure anymore. I've lost some confidence in her and I'm angry. My understanding is that because this is a civil marriage getting a divorce is not a mortal sin and won't block me from Communion. I see the only options are either to divorce or to marry in the Catholic Church. Cohabiting is no longer an option as I no longer want to live in sin. Wondering people's thoughts on whether it's best to marry without love for the betterment of a child.
C
I'll chime in with the others and recommend speaking with your priest. Here are my 2 cents:
However, I disagree with the bolded ... for now....given where she is at spiritually. Even most NO Catholics would balk at these things. You definitely have to pick your battles, and IMO this isn't it. Meet her halfway, and that might soften her willingness to come to Catholicism.
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Maybe she mentioned divorce out of anger.
She already has a friend who is a Protestant. She might need to find a female friend at your chapel.
Do you love her? Marriage takes work.
First couple of years can be difficult for any couple. You both have a child. Time to grow up and give all to God.
Find a family with a good marriage at your chapel to hang out with outside Mass.
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Also, who is current Protestant friend? Is this friend same nationality of your wife? Is she divorced? Is she single. Sometimes misery likes company and cause problems in marriages. Girls night out and boys night out is not of God.
Married people shouldn’t hang out with single or divorced people. It can cause problems in a marriage.
Put God first in your family.
Many times happily married couples with children will hang out outside of mass. I know many various families getting together for meals, prayer, hikes. Etc.
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I would certainly avoid the possible sacrilege of having her be baptized if she doesn't have the faith and isn't a serious/dedicated Catholic. Marriage is nevertheless possible, even if she's not baptized ... IF she agrees to help raise your son as a Catholic.
I think you have to weigh the impact on your son, and it would be dishonest to pretend that you love this woman if you don't, and not fair to her.
Finally, if she's liable to walk out on you (which is sounds like she is and would have little hesitation if things got tough), then you could be in a situation where you could be stuck in a marriage after she had left.
I would recommend praying a 54-day Rosary Novena (15 decades each day) asking God to help you know the right thing to do.
If your son would be traumatized by the divorce, you might go one way, but then she could also end up being an extremely bad influence in raising him (in which case you'd be better off ... IF you could get sole custody). If you can't get sole custody, her potential bad influence would remain anyway AND your son would still be traumatized by the divorce. But if your relationship is bad enough, he may be more traumatized if you stay.
So it's a very difficult set of prudential considerations that you'll need to seek God's assistance about ... but please don't have her go through the motions of receiving the Sacrament of Baptism if she doesn't really have the faith and isn't committed to it. I've seen these "Baptism of convenience" scenarios go very wrong, and I believe it was a way for the devil to enter and become more active, perhaps due to the sacrilege of an insincere Baptism.
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If the various "rules" you mentioned are the big problem, prudence might suggest easing up on them. Rebuking the sinner is only required when you think it will be well received and will actually correct the sin. Maybe you can strike a compromise where she dresses modestly at Mass and she could have a TV, even if you don't watch it and don't let your son watch it. If she doesn't have the faith and doesn't have the right motivation to comply with those rules, imposing them first, before she's persuaded of the faith might cause her to rebel, and if those are the only things standing in the way of creating a stable situation for your son, you might consider easing up on these things. You could think that you're responsible for any of the effects of her immodest dress, for instance, but if you break up, she's going to do that anyway. Lots of prudential judgment calls that you need God's help her to navigate.
Just think about being a worldling and then suddenly going from 0 to 60, as it were ... and feeling like you're now having to start living like an Amish person. That can be a shock to one's system, and might suggest a very gradual introduction of things, prioritized. As I said, maybe start with a couple things and ease into them. Once she gets used to one or two rules, it'll be easier to introduce another one, then another one, and over time (with patience), she might get there ... whereas abruptly imposing all these rules might cause her to snap.
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Ladislaus is right, this is about prudence (applying principles to a specific circuмstance) rather than some kind of blanket dogma that applies in all cases.
And there are many unknowns that would have to be known before a right decision could be made. The exact nature of your relationship now, for example. Those are things a priest (for example) would need to know, to help you decide. But ultimately it's your decision --
That is why it's difficult for strangers on the Internet to truly give you complete advice in this matter. Ladislaus gave the ultimate response that can be given, under the circuмstances. Notice how many times he admitted he didn't know this or that, and how that would affect the decision to be made.
Ladislaus gave the best (dare I say "priestly") answer; as you might know he spent years at a Trad seminary.
Closely followed by the good advice in this post:
https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/marry-without-love-for-son/msg922674/#msg922674
But unfortunately there's no cheat code or easy answer that can be given out, in a case like this. Which is very difficult on the advice-giver, believe me.
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I'll chime in with the others and recommend speaking with your priest. Here are my 2 cents:
However, I disagree with the bolded ... for now....given where she is at spiritually. Even most NO Catholics would balk at these things. You definitely have to pick your battles, and IMO this isn't it. Meet her halfway, and that might soften her willingness to come to Catholicism.
Absolutely not, that is the bare minimum. That's literally Vatican II, let's compromise the faith so that people convert, insane.
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Absolutely not, that is the bare minimum. That's literally Vatican II, let's compromise the faith so that people convert, insane.
I'm talking about the tights, obviously, letting go of the TV I agree would be a bit too much for a non-Catholic.
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Ladislaus is right, this is about prudence (applying principles to a specific circuмstance) rather than some kind of blanket dogma that applies in all cases.
And there are many unknowns that would have to be known before a right decision could be made. The exact nature of your relationship now, for example. Those are things a priest (for example) would need to know, to help you decide. But ultimately it's your decision --
That is why it's difficult for strangers on the Internet to truly give you complete advice in this matter. Ladislaus gave the ultimate response that can be given, under the circuмstances. Notice how many times he admitted he didn't know this or that, and how that would affect the decision to be made.
Ladislaus gave the best (dare I say "priestly") answer; as you might know he spent years at a Trad seminary.
Closely followed by the good advice in this post:
https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/marry-without-love-for-son/msg922674/#msg922674
But unfortunately there's no cheat code or easy answer that can be given out, in a case like this. Which is very difficult on the advice-giver, believe me.
Yeah, I didn't mean to be giving any kind of direct advice, but just wanted to throw a few extra considerations into the mix that should be considered. As you mention, we know almost nothing about the particulars that would need to be known to make a prudent decision about how to proceed, and recommended the Rosary Novena to help God guide you. Our human prudence can only take us so far, but God knows the future (which is present to Him) and knows all the outcomes of every possible decision or permutation of decisions we can make and He alone knows what ultimately will lead to the best outcome.
Mostly I wanted to emphasize that there are a lot of prudential considerations involved, where there may not necessarily be a perfect decision or ideal state. Prudence is sometimes the forgotten virtue as people tend to focus on the principles that represent the ideal.
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Not to sound flippant, but "getting rid of the TV" doesn't make much sense this day and age especially with computer monitors and cellphones. The virtue lies in not abusing the tech and binge watching stuff, not the TV itself. It was different when Fr. Feeney was alive because computers and phones weren't a thing. The TV was pumping straight trash and it was all that was available. Today we have much more control over what we consume than then. So, I'm not in the "throw your tv out" camp, but just put it in a discrete place, smaller, and use it sparingly to watch good things.
But yeah Ladislaus made good points.
Also, pretty sure if two non-Catholics marry and one becomes Catholic they can get the Pauline Privilege to dissolve the marriage.
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Also, pretty sure if two non-Catholics marry and one becomes Catholic they can get the Pauline Privilege to dissolve the marriage.
Right, assuming it was a valid marriage in the first place. Given that OP stated that they just "married" so she could stay in the country with the thought they could split up later, it may not have been a valid marriage at all. So I think his question is whether he SHOULD marry her. And it may not be entirely up to him. If the woman is unwilling to commit to an indissoluble bond, she may not have the correct dispositions to marry validly anyway ... and that would in fact take care of OP's dilemma entirely, where he'd have little choice but to separate from her unless some priest considered it advisable for them to remain together as brother and sister for the sake of the child. In either case, however, if she's unwilling to marry him (and it sounds like she may not be willing), the OP really has no option to marry her, without love, for their son ... since you can't unilaterally contract marriage.
So, this does raise a good point, OP. If your initial marriage wasn't valid (sounds like it may not be) and she's unwilling to marry you with the conditions of being in it for life and agree to raising the child Catholic, you may not really have much of a choice. You said she was willing to marry in the Church, but what does this actually mean to her beside the ceremony? Would she be willing to commit to an indissoluble bond and raise your son a Catholic? If not, then, there's no possibility for you to marry her anyway.
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Our relationship hasn't been great. And it was very bad the first year or two. We hardly knew each other when she got pregnant and I married her so she can stay in the country (she's from Southeast Asia). I was resentful and acted that way. The plan was if things don't work out, we can separate.
This does not sound like it was a valid marriage, and then even if it was, you're in Pauline Privilege territory.
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We've been talking about getting her baptized and us marrying through the Church. She hasn't been enthusiastic about this but it seems like she'll go along.
Based on this, it's unclear whether she has or can form the requisite intention to validly marry you. Reluctantly willing to "go along" would give me some pause.
I also question whether she should be baptized if she's not "enthusiastic" about it either. This may just end up being a sacrilegious Baptism that she's doing just for social reasons, i.e. just to "go along".
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Hi, I've been lurking these forums for 6 months, coming back to the faith after 20 years.
Is this your first marriage?
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I also question whether she should be baptized if she's not "enthusiastic" about it either. This may just end up being a sacrilegious Baptism that she's doing just for social reasons, i.e. just to "go along".
I think this one should be an easier question. Even if they both wanted to normalize their situation in the Church, she doesn't have to be baptized first. There's no urgency on her conversion process.
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This does not sound like it was a valid marriage, and then even if it was, you're in Pauline Privilege territory.
🎯
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I think this one should be an easier question. Even if they both wanted to normalize their situation in the Church, she doesn't have to be baptized first. There's no urgency on her conversion process.
I understand that, but OP said that they were considering for her to be baptized and then for them to marry in the Catholic Church, so I was addressing both of his points.
We've been talking about getting her baptized and us marrying through the Church.
... after which OP stated she she was willing to "go along" with it. I advised that just getting baptized to "go along" when she hadn't sincerely converted could be sacrilege against the Sacrament.
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This does not sound like it was a valid marriage, and then even if it was, you're in Pauline Privilege territory.
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The "Pauline Privilege" would only apply if both were unbaptised at the time of the marriage. OP seems to indicate that he was baptised though: "coming back to the faith after 20 years.".
Lack of a dispensation for "disparity of cult" and dispensation from "Canonical Form" would be the strongest reasons for a finding of nullity, based on the information given.
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It's highly unlikely this woman would leave her OK living situation, with her husband supporting her, unless she has something "better" lined up. Despite any threats of divorce uttered in the heat of an argument...
However bad she thinks she has it now, imagine doing it all on your own as a single mom. She would have less money and free time.
And let's be candid. She's a middle-aged southeast Asian immigrant. She probably doesn't have a lot of friends and family in the USA (possibly as little as zero), and probably not independently wealthy either. She's not going anywhere.
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Much good advice has been tendered.
Allow me to make a small contribution—Find an authentic ("trad") Catholic priest that is a native speaker of her language, then let him counsel her in her native tongue.
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Much good advice has been tendered.
Allow me to make a small contribution—Find an authentic ("trad") Catholic priest that is a native speaker of her language, then let him counsel her in her native tongue.
That's a great thought!
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Do you have a previous wife?
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Please talk to the sedevacantist priest.
You should not marry unless your wife sincerely converts and won't leave you.
You're in a very tough situation, I recommend praying the 15 decades of the rosary each day if you can.
I talked with him today over the phone. He recommended I don't move too quickly and to ease up on the rules. And to find out if she really wants to convert to the faith. I suppose I took her resistance to the rules as her not wanting to convert. I asked her this evening now that things have cooled between us. She said she believes God exists and that she has no problems with the Catholic Church. She says she doesn't know much and wants to know what to do next. She even suggested we fly to Ohio to talk to the priest in person.
He also said that we should talk to the visiting priest next time they're in town. I have mixed feelings about this. I'm nervous that if we do this, we get locked into the sedevacantist route, which like I mentioned earlier I'd rather not dig any deeper into at the moment. I don't have an issue with attending the mass though so I guess I'll just be upfront with the priest that we're not so sure about sedevacantism and that we attend the SSPX mass. I wasn't upfront over the phone because I didn't know how to bring it up tactfully.
C
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Since we've said "talk to a priest" 3 times now, I think it's fair game to toss in my opinion. :smirk:
I don't understand the logic from the above poster. I'm going to answer the original question and say "yes" you should stay in a so-so relationship for the sake of your son.
The standard divorce arrangement looks something like you paying a large portion of your wages in child support just to see your child on some weekends and holidays. There's slim chance of you, as the father, getting a better arrangement than that. You have the best chance of teaching your son your own values and the Catholic Faith by being there for as long and as much as possible. The fact that the Church allows for Catholics to marry non-Catholics as long as they agree to raise the children Catholic shows the priority order. You have a greater responsibility for raising your son than you do in converting your spouse. Your marriage might technically be in a state that you can walk away from, but the reality is that your family became permanent four years ago (five, really) when your son became part of the equation.
This has been my thought. Those 5 years ago, I was told by my mother and friends not to marry her but it didn't sit right with me. Now that the relationship is "so-so" and could possibly be better, it makes sense to me to keep trying. I had talked to her about why she wanted to leave and her answer was illogical. She just recently found out about some health issues and was worried I would abandon her after she saw how distant I am with my parents when they visited. It doesn't make sense given the circuмstances and everything I told about the life-long commitment I wanted with her through Catholic marriage. So it was just emotion. She can go very dark places.
C
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OP were you raised Catholic? And what about your wife? Baptised/raised religious at all?
I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic schools. My mom made sure we went on obligatory days and didn't eat meat on Fridays during Lent. My dad didn't always attend. I dropped from the faith around 20. Tried to come back in my late 20s by talking with the priest I grew up with. That lasted about a month. I found it too hard to give up sinful behavior and was demoralized by it. The feel good Catholicism wasn't resonating with me like the fear of eternal damnation has.
She's from a Buddhist country. Very little Catholicism. Although she did go to a school run by nuns oddly enough. And her aunt had converted to Catholicism.
C
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Maybe she mentioned divorce out of anger.
She already has a friend who is a Protestant. She might need to find a female friend at your chapel.
Do you love her? Marriage takes work.
First couple of years can be difficult for any couple. You both have a child. Time to grow up and give all to God.
Find a family with a good marriage at your chapel to hang out with outside Mass.
This is a great idea. She has mentioned a lady who always waves at her when we go to mass. They're both Asian. I'm not sure if they've spoken more than a simple greeting. I can ask her to point her and her husband out next time. I have an ice breaker in mind.
C
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Also, who is current Protestant friend? Is this friend same nationality of your wife? Is she divorced? Is she single. Sometimes misery likes company and cause problems in marriages. Girls night out and boys night out is not of God.
Married people shouldn’t hang out with single or divorced people. It can cause problems in a marriage.
Put God first in your family.
Many times happily married couples with children will hang out outside of mass. I know many various families getting together for meals, prayer, hikes. Etc.
The Protestant friend is a foreigner but of different nationality (Eastern European). I asked an SSPX priest in front of my wife what he thinks of her doing bible study with a Protestant and he said "it's probably not a good idea". So my wife told her friend that she could not continue bible study with her. I was impressed she had the resolve to risk offending her only friend here. The friend is very traditional. The kids do not watch tv or movies, trick or treat, eat processed foods. So I think it's a healthy relationship for her. It helps because there's someone else in her life that rejects modernity that isn't just me. I'm less crazy.
C
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I would certainly avoid the possible sacrilege of having her be baptized if she doesn't have the faith and isn't a serious/dedicated Catholic. Marriage is nevertheless possible, even if she's not baptized ... IF she agrees to help raise your son as a Catholic.
I think you have to weigh the impact on your son, and it would be dishonest to pretend that you love this woman if you don't, and not fair to her.
Finally, if she's liable to walk out on you (which is sounds like she is and would have little hesitation if things got tough), then you could be in a situation where you could be stuck in a marriage after she had left.
I would recommend praying a 54-day Rosary Novena (15 decades each day) asking God to help you know the right thing to do.
If your son would be traumatized by the divorce, you might go one way, but then she could also end up being an extremely bad influence in raising him (in which case you'd be better off ... IF you could get sole custody). If you can't get sole custody, her potential bad influence would remain anyway AND your son would still be traumatized by the divorce. But if your relationship is bad enough, he may be more traumatized if you stay.
So it's a very difficult set of prudential considerations that you'll need to seek God's assistance about ... but please don't have her go through the motions of receiving the Sacrament of Baptism if she doesn't really have the faith and isn't committed to it. I've seen these "Baptism of convenience" scenarios go very wrong, and I believe it was a way for the devil to enter and become more active, perhaps due to the sacrilege of an insincere Baptism.
Thanks for pointing out the possible sacrilege. I'll keep it top of mind. As for not loving her, I just don't know. I won't know until I grow in charity and she softens towards me.
I do 5 decades almost every day. Sometimes devout, sometimes I'm totally distracted. I'm not sure I could sustain 15 decades. I've been meaning to try it by splitting it up but I get so stressed with work that I don't get to praying until I'm ready for bed.
C
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If the various "rules" you mentioned are the big problem, prudence might suggest easing up on them. Rebuking the sinner is only required when you think it will be well received and will actually correct the sin. Maybe you can strike a compromise where she dresses modestly at Mass and she could have a TV, even if you don't watch it and don't let your son watch it. If she doesn't have the faith and doesn't have the right motivation to comply with those rules, imposing them first, before she's persuaded of the faith might cause her to rebel, and if those are the only things standing in the way of creating a stable situation for your son, you might consider easing up on these things. You could think that you're responsible for any of the effects of her immodest dress, for instance, but if you break up, she's going to do that anyway. Lots of prudential judgment calls that you need God's help her to navigate.
Just think about being a worldling and then suddenly going from 0 to 60, as it were ... and feeling like you're now having to start living like an Amish person. That can be a shock to one's system, and might suggest a very gradual introduction of things, prioritized. As I said, maybe start with a couple things and ease into them. Once she gets used to one or two rules, it'll be easier to introduce another one, then another one, and over time (with patience), she might get there ... whereas abruptly imposing all these rules might cause her to snap.
Yes, this is where a lot of strife is coming from. These rules are required for keeping me in line but they aren't doing much good for her. I should ease up on the comments too when she's watching some questionable media by herself. I'm probably just being annoying.
C
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Not to sound flippant, but "getting rid of the TV" doesn't make much sense this day and age especially with computer monitors and cellphones. The virtue lies in not abusing the tech and binge watching stuff, not the TV itself. It was different when Fr. Feeney was alive because computers and phones weren't a thing. The TV was pumping straight trash and it was all that was available. Today we have much more control over what we consume than then. So, I'm not in the "throw your tv out" camp, but just put it in a discrete place, smaller, and use it sparingly to watch good things.
But yeah Ladislaus made good points.
Also, pretty sure if two non-Catholics marry and one becomes Catholic they can get the Pauline Privilege to dissolve the marriage.
I agree. I have a media server at home that acts as our own personal Netflix. It only has content I've downloaded myself. It's mostly old cartoons, the How It's Made series, Mr. Bean, animal docuмentaries, things of that nature. Absolutely no Cocomelon. That is the hill I will die on.
I really like your suggestion of having a TV but putting it in a discreet place. I don't like the TV being the focus of the house. And if it's on I get too easily sucked in. It's a great compromise with my wife. Our son is watching media anyway on the computer.
C
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Based on this, it's unclear whether she has or can form the requisite intention to validly marry you. Reluctantly willing to "go along" would give me some pause.
I also question whether she should be baptized if she's not "enthusiastic" about it either. This may just end up being a sacrilegious Baptism that she's doing just for social reasons, i.e. just to "go along".
I might have misrepresented her feelings on converting, sorry. I know she wants God in her life. She had wanted this before meeting her Protestant friend, having gone to Protestant services in the city we met. She was turned off by them because they kept trying to matchmake her. She's the reason I am now back trying to amend my life in the Church. When I first mentioned converting and marriage she was open to it, mostly neutral. She doesn't know enough about it. She bought a Catholic book for moms but it was totally modern and I told her that that's not the true faith. I didn't spend time to try to steer her correctly because I was so busy myself trying to figure out sspx v resistance vs sedevantism. Along with just understanding the basics of the faith.
The reason I used the phrase "go along" though is that the last few times I brought up marriage, she's been more combative. But this might just be a reaction to the rules. And it's also been months now and the only progress we've made is having our son baptized.
Is this your first marriage?
Yes.
I think this one should be an easier question. Even if they both wanted to normalize their situation in the Church, she doesn't have to be baptized first. There's no urgency on her conversion process.
I plan to slow things down here and just introduce her to the faith properly. I told her she doesn't have to convert but I think it would be great for her. And that there are other options.
If catechism for her is going to take a year, then I might consider normalizing the situation before she is baptized if things are going well.
It's highly unlikely this woman would leave her OK living situation, with her husband supporting her, unless she has something "better" lined up. Despite any threats of divorce uttered in the heat of an argument...
However bad she thinks she has it now, imagine doing it all on your own as a single mom. She would have less money and free time.
And let's be candid. She's a middle-aged southeast Asian immigrant. She probably doesn't have a lot of friends and family in the USA (possibly as little as zero), and probably not independently wealthy either. She's not going anywhere.
This is exactly right. I pushed her on answering where she would go if she left and she said worst case would be to go back to her home country and live with her father.
Much good advice has been tendered.
Allow me to make a small contribution—Find an authentic ("trad") Catholic priest that is a native speaker of her language, then let him counsel her in her native tongue.
Yes, thank you everyone for your kindness.
I don't know if there are trad priests in her country. Might be hard to find.
C
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I'm sure someone on the forum could point you in the right direction if you were willing to share her native language. I am aware of some Vietnamese trad priests located in the US, so I don't think you'd have to necessarily go as far as her home country.
Praying for your wife's conversion :pray:
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Do you have a book you could recommend her? She's not a native English speaker so anything with archaic sounding English might be too difficult. Or any other recommendations like a podcast? I'm probably not the best apologist for her.
I've been thinking about this and think that maybe a book initially aimed at youth might be a good idea. Older books that were written for young people are really not very "childish" at all by our current standards. There's a book called My Catholic Faith: A Catechism in Pictures that includes lots of information and very nice pictures. You can find it several places. Here's a link to the one carried by Angelus Press.
https://angeluspress.org/products/my-catholic-faith
Don't forget to get some good books for your son, too. Fr. Lovasik made lots of picture books for young children. A few of them have been "updated", but you can usually identify the newer ones just by the cover art.
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=598740777&sxsrf=ACQVn0-NQco977i3sm3TTbi5vbx-GRQm_A:1705393309716&q=lawrence+lovasik+books&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5xLWTveGDAxVlmmoFHePdDmQQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=1745&bih=967&dpr=1.1
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From all the new information OP provided things are definitely much better than originally seen. Salvageable.
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I talked with him today over the phone. He recommended I don't move too quickly and to ease up on the rules. And to find out if she really wants to convert to the faith. I suppose I took her resistance to the rules as her not wanting to convert. I asked her this evening now that things have cooled between us. She said she believes God exists and that she has no problems with the Catholic Church. She says she doesn't know much and wants to know what to do next. She even suggested we fly to Ohio to talk to the priest in person.
He also said that we should talk to the visiting priest next time they're in town. I have mixed feelings about this. I'm nervous that if we do this, we get locked into the sedevacantist route, which like I mentioned earlier I'd rather not dig any deeper into at the moment. I don't have an issue with attending the mass though so I guess I'll just be upfront with the priest that we're not so sure about sedevacantism and that we attend the SSPX mass. I wasn't upfront over the phone because I didn't know how to bring it up tactfully.
C
Good to see that he suggested some of the same things some of us did here. If this is a CMRI priest, then you don't have to worry. The visiting priest will probably encourage the SV position, but he will not tell you you can't assist at a SSPX mass in the meantime. Just take one step at a time.
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I talked with him today over the phone. He recommended I don't move too quickly and to ease up on the rules. And to find out if she really wants to convert to the faith. I suppose I took her resistance to the rules as her not wanting to convert. I asked her this evening now that things have cooled between us. She said she believes God exists and that she has no problems with the Catholic Church. She says she doesn't know much and wants to know what to do next. She even suggested we fly to Ohio to talk to the priest in person.
He also said that we should talk to the visiting priest next time they're in town. I have mixed feelings about this. I'm nervous that if we do this, we get locked into the sedevacantist route, which like I mentioned earlier I'd rather not dig any deeper into at the moment. I don't have an issue with attending the mass though so I guess I'll just be upfront with the priest that we're not so sure about sedevacantism and that we attend the SSPX mass. I wasn't upfront over the phone because I didn't know how to bring it up tactfully.
C
Great news. I agree with the priest about easing up on the rules. It's probably too much too fast for someone who's at her point in the possible conversion process. I think sometimes people get scrupulous about imposing these rules, feeling that God will judge them i they don't, but even St. Thomas clearly taught about "rebuking the sinner" that it's only required when you think it'll have the right effect. In fact, St. Augustine said that there are situations where charity might require NOT rebuking the sinner if in fact you judge that the person might not react well to it, either double down on it. In your case, it might become an impediment / obstacle to her ultimate conversion.
I always emphasize Prudence, which is almost a forgotten virtue, but it's the queen of virtue. There are principles of things that are right and wrong, but then their application can vary depending on the circuмstances. So, for instance, as above, the core reason for rebuking the sinner is for their conversion, but if in PRUDENCE you determine that a rebuke might work contrary to that goal (the person might double down, or it might impede their conversion), the core reason behind rebuking the sinner might actually suggest NOT rebuking the sinner, and in your case, easing up on the rules. If the rules are the main reason she's pushing back, then easing up on these might be the most prudent course of action long term. If, with these out of the way, she can sincerely convert to the faith, then at some point she could very willingly comply with the rules, instead of being forced to do so "kicking and screaming", as it were.
Depending on which priest you spoke to in Ohio, you're probably not going to be "locked into the sedevacantist route". SSPV, for instance, e.g. Fathers Jenkins, Greenwell, etc. are not particularly dogmatic sedevacantists, nor are the CMRI for that mattter. And it may not be necessary to fly to Ohio either, as phone conversations (we also have Facetime, Zoom, etc. these days) might suffice given the stage you're at with her.
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I've been thinking about this and think that maybe a book initially aimed at youth might be a good idea. Older books that were written for young people are really not very "childish" at all by our current standards. There's a book called My Catholic Faith: A Catechism in Pictures that includes lots of information and very nice pictures. You can find it several places. Here's a link to the one carried by Angelus Press.
https://angeluspress.org/products/my-catholic-faith
Don't forget to get some good books for your son, too. Fr. Lovasik made lots of picture books for young children. A few of them have been "updated", but you can usually identify the newer ones just by the cover art.
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=598740777&sxsrf=ACQVn0-NQco977i3sm3TTbi5vbx-GRQm_A:1705393309716&q=lawrence+lovasik+books&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5xLWTveGDAxVlmmoFHePdDmQQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=1745&bih=967&dpr=1.1
It's funny you mention My Catholic Faith. We have that book and that's the one I gave to her and had her start reading yesterday. I wasn't so sure it was best so glad it's the one you recommend for her.
Thanks for the picture book suggestions! I bought a few children's Catholic books already but wasn't too keen on them. I'll check out Fr. Lovasik's.
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Great news. I agree with the priest about easing up on the rules. It's probably too much too fast for someone who's at her point in the possible conversion process. I think sometimes people get scrupulous about imposing these rules, feeling that God will judge them i they don't, but even St. Thomas clearly taught about "rebuking the sinner" that it's only required when you think it'll have the right effect. In fact, St. Augustine said that there are situations where charity might require NOT rebuking the sinner if in fact you judge that the person might not react well to it, either double down on it. In your case, it might become an impediment / obstacle to her ultimate conversion.
I always emphasize Prudence, which is almost a forgotten virtue, but it's the queen of virtue. There are principles of things that are right and wrong, but then their application can vary depending on the circuмstances. So, for instance, as above, the core reason for rebuking the sinner is for their conversion, but if in PRUDENCE you determine that a rebuke might work contrary to that goal (the person might double down, or it might impede their conversion), the core reason behind rebuking the sinner might actually suggest NOT rebuking the sinner, and in your case, easing up on the rules. If the rules are the main reason she's pushing back, then easing up on these might be the most prudent course of action long term. If, with these out of the way, she can sincerely convert to the faith, then at some point she could very willingly comply with the rules, instead of being forced to do so "kicking and screaming", as it were.
Depending on which priest you spoke to in Ohio, you're probably not going to be "locked into the sedevacantist route". SSPV, for instance, e.g. Fathers Jenkins, Greenwell, etc. are not particularly dogmatic sedevacantists, nor are the CMRI for that mattter. And it may not be necessary to fly to Ohio either, as phone conversations (we also have Facetime, Zoom, etc. these days) might suffice given the stage you're at with her.
Thanks for explaining Prudence. The priest is associated with St. Gertrude the Great Church.
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I forgot to add C at the end. :fryingpan:
C
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Thanks for explaining Prudence. The priest is associated with St. Gertrude the Great Church.
I'm confused. If you don't live in Ohio (and attend a SSPX mass), what made you contact this priest?
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Thanks for explaining Prudence. The priest is associated with St. Gertrude the Great Church.
Yes, as far as I know SGG do tend to be dogmatic SV, so they will try to strongly persuade you along those lines, though of course they can't force you to do other things. If that becomes a problem for you, Father Jenkins' group in Cincy are more moderate in that regard.
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If it's not going too far I would also begin to explain to her how embracing the Catholic faith would benefit her in a material sense. Where appropriate I would even reward any move she makes towards this goal. I'm not suggesting bribery by the way. But as Ladislaus said prudence is key in the situation.
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Be careful with the Lovasik books. Some of the newer printings, which have the same covers, have been updated. For example, they call Our Lady's apparition to St. Dominic a "legend" in the Rosary book. Another line from a page on the Annunciation "But Mary was confused by the angel's greeting and even more by this request. She had never slept with a man; she was a virgin."
Also, the OP seems to have absorbed the modern notion of love and not the Catholic understanding. The simplest answer to his question is to love this woman as Christ loved the Church. Women are wired to desire such love and my hunch is she will respond.
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Be careful with the Lovasik books. Some of the newer printings, which have the same covers, have been updated. For example, they call Our Lady's apparition to St. Dominic a "legend" in the Rosary book. Another line from a page on the Annunciation "But Mary was confused by the angel's greeting and even more by this request. She had never slept with a man; she was a virgin."
Also, the OP seems to have absorbed the modern notion of love and not the Catholic understanding. The simplest answer to his question is to love this woman as Christ loved the Church. Women are wired to desire such love and my hunch is she will respond.
I wish this were the case but this has been dismantled where women have been brainwashed to want the exact opposite. Any man who actually loves them that way or wants to love them that way are seen as "too nice" or "clingy" or "desparate." The entire society needs an overhaul in order for the correct order to be established again.
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Whatever state "society" is in does not absolve the individual of his obligation. Society has been in rebellion since the beginning of time. The fact remains that if, after counsel from wise priests and prayer and discernment, the OP marries this woman, he MUST love her. Love is not something one falls into, it is an act of the will. It is clear from his original post that he does not yet have the proper understanding. Furthermore, it is best for him to try this approach now if he is to have any hope of her conversion and making this work for the sake of his son. Perhaps she will not respond, but it is his only shot at a Catholic marriage with her. And he ought to know that it won't be an easy thing to find a good trad woman to marry him when he already has a record, so to speak.
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He also said that we should talk to the visiting priest next time they're in town. I have mixed feelings about this. I'm nervous that if we do this, we get locked into the sedevacantist route, which like I mentioned earlier I'd rather not dig any deeper into at the moment. I don't have an issue with attending the mass though so I guess I'll just be upfront with the priest that we're not so sure about sedevacantism and that we attend the SSPX mass.
SSPX vs Sedevecantist - please don't get overly concerned with the Trad flavor, at this point. A valid, Traditional priest is the most important.
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I'm confused. If you don't live in Ohio (and attend a SSPX mass), what made you contact this priest?
Correct, I'm not in Ohio. He's the priest responsible for the mission chapel that's driving distance from me. I came across the chapel in the Traditio directory* and called the number. He answered. That was a few months ago and since then, I've waffled many many times in my head between SSPX, Resistance, Sedevantism, Home Alone, and all the warring factions in them. I'm now at the stage where I'm exhausted from it all and don't want to think too much about it anymore. The SSPX mass is fine for now, despite my distrust of the society. It's the most convenient.
As for the SSPX priest, I had talked with him about my wife and the sacraments before but I have such a hard time getting advice from him. He's a laid back personality and his response is usually along the lines of "you can if you want". It's the reason I didn't want to speak with him on the recent situation with my wife. And why I thought of the sedevacantist priest who had given a lot of instruction that first time I spoke with him.
* http://www-traditio-com/tradlib/masslat.pdf (replace - with .)
Yes, as far as I know SGG do tend to be dogmatic SV, so they will try to strongly persuade you along those lines, though of course they can't force you to do other things. If that becomes a problem for you, Father Jenkins' group in Cincy are more moderate in that regard.
That's the impression I got when I first talked to the priest. He can't force me, yes, but the pressure would weigh on me. I will look into Father Jenkins, this is the first I've heard of his name. Although, I do recognize his face.
If it's not going too far I would also begin to explain to her how embracing the Catholic faith would benefit her in a material sense. Where appropriate I would even reward any move she makes towards this goal. I'm not suggesting bribery by the way. But as Ladislaus said prudence is key in the situation.
By "material sense", do you mean grace? Or that I would be more kind to her? Rewarding sounds like a great idea.
Be careful with the Lovasik books. Some of the newer printings, which have the same covers, have been updated. For example, they call Our Lady's apparition to St. Dominic a "legend" in the Rosary book. Another line from a page on the Annunciation "But Mary was confused by the angel's greeting and even more by this request. She had never slept with a man; she was a virgin."
Also, the OP seems to have absorbed the modern notion of love and not the Catholic understanding. The simplest answer to his question is to love this woman as Christ loved the Church. Women are wired to desire such love and my hunch is she will respond.
Thanks for that warning. I'm a bit aware of the deceit that goes on in newer editions of traditional books. But to use the same covers is frustrating. I worry my wife would read such things and absorb it. Those example are shocking.
Whatever state "society" is in does not absolve the individual of his obligation. Society has been in rebellion since the beginning of time. The fact remains that if, after counsel from wise priests and prayer and discernment, the OP marries this woman, he MUST love her. Love is not something one falls into, it is an act of the will. It is clear from his original post that he does not yet have the proper understanding. Furthermore, it is best for him to try this approach now if he is to have any hope of her conversion and making this work for the sake of his son. Perhaps she will not respond, but it is his only shot at a Catholic marriage with her. And he ought to know that it won't be an easy thing to find a good trad woman to marry him when he already has a record, so to speak.
I believe this is the same poster who said to "to love this woman as Christ loved the Church". That's a very vague notion to me. I don't quite understand it to be honest. I will think about this more, thank you.
And yes, I'm aware of the realities of the alternative.
SSPX vs Sedevecantist - please don't get overly concerned with the Trad flavor, at this point. A valid, Traditional priest is the most important.
You're right. I've found it to be terribly confusing and demoralizing. I have a handful of Resistance and Sedevantists priests I like to listen to but when argumentation on who is right comes up, I skip it.
C
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I believe this is the same poster who said to "to love this woman as Christ loved the Church". That's a very vague notion to me. I don't quite understand it to be honest. I will think about this more, thank you.
I am not that poster, but "to love this woman as Christ loved the Church" means that you would be prepared to give your life for her, as Christ gave His Life for us, (the Church) by dying on the Cross to save us, so we can have Eternal Life. That also means giving yourself wholly to her.
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Correct, I'm not in Ohio. He's the priest responsible for the mission chapel that's driving distance from me. I came across the chapel in the Traditio directory* and called the number. He answered. That was a few months ago and since then, I've waffled many many times in my head between SSPX, Resistance, Sedevantism, Home Alone, and all the warring factions in them. I'm now at the stage where I'm exhausted from it all and don't want to think too much about it anymore. The SSPX mass is fine for now, despite my distrust of the society. It's the most convenient.
As for the SSPX priest, I had talked with him about my wife and the sacraments before but I have such a hard time getting advice from him. He's a laid back personality and his response is usually along the lines of "you can if you want". It's the reason I didn't want to speak with him on the recent situation with my wife. And why I thought of the sedevacantist priest who had given a lot of instruction that first time I spoke with him.
* http://www-traditio-com/tradlib/masslat.pdf (replace - with .)
Hi C,
Since you aren't in Ohio (which is where Fr Jenkins is located), here is the CMRI directory for the US. You may find a priest within a reasonable distance. I have also heard that they send priests out as well. Also, you won't have the same concern as you have with the priest from SGG.
CMRI Directory of Traditional Latin Masses (U.S.) – CMRI: Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen
(https://cmri.org/cmri-directory-of-traditional-latin-masses/#USA)
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Any update from C?
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Well, things could be better.
I had the opportunity to travel to South America for work. The timing conflicted with the mass where I wanted to talk with the priest. I should have said no (and I could have easily done so) but I was too absorbed in thinking of worldly things. I had never been to South America. It would be fun to go out drinking with coworkers like I used to. Eat at nice restaurants like I used to. Meet some new faces. Feel like a hotshot getting paid to travel. There was pressure to make a decision the day I was told about it so I didn't have much time to reflect. I ended up going. This means I didn't talk to the priest like I had planned. And my religious life has suffered. It's interesting the timing of your post though. I got myself to pray last night and it hit me hard the realization of how much of a mistake I made in prioritizing a week to relive my old life over my family and faith.
On the trip, I was able to fast, only having dinner in the evening. But those dinners were gluttonous. And I drank to excess. Dealing with hangovers and coming home late made it difficult to pray. Since coming home, I've been having such trouble saying the rosary. I know how important prayer is for me right now. I keep telling myself throughout the day that the most important thing for me to do at this very moment is to pray the rosary. But I just have this refusal in me. I'm not exactly sure how the devil / demons operate but I suspect they're having a field day with my weakness. I only pray the rosary maybe once or twice a week now. And as a consequence, I'm less charitable towards my wife.
I used to check in with my wife about the catechism book every day and she was on top of it. That stopped. I just asked her today and she said she hasn't read it in awhile. She thought I had lost interest in the faith. Most likely because I stopped talking about it and we have been missing mass at the SSPX. It can be demoralizing for me not being able to go to confession or receive communion so I justify not going. My lame excuse is something like "why go if I'm in a state of mortal sin (because of cohabitation) and I have no clue when I'll get out of it?".
I do occasionally get myself to read holy things. I just finished a small book on hell by Father F. X. Schouppe. So at least I'm aware of the dangerous situation I'm in. Still, I'm afraid that if I don't correct things quickly I might lose the little grace I have left entirely.
I've been thinking of ways to shock myself out of this. I desperately want my prayer life back. Shia LaBeouf's Just Do It video is not enough. Sleeping on the floor has helped me in the past. I tend to seek out comfort and avoid difficult things in life. Sleeping on the floor helps combat this. I know I'm supposed to talk to a priest about mortification but this feels like a fairly minor one compared to something like hairshirts. The floor is carpeted.
Anyway, thanks for asking about me. I do wish I had a more upbeat reply.
C
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Will pray for you at Mass today.
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Keep fighting and trying! You will be in our prayers! May the great Saint Patrick bless you today on his feast day! :pray:
Passiontide starts today and Holy Week will be here soon. What a good time to get things going again. :cowboy:
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It seems like you need to work on your Faith and a better example to your wife.