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Offline Geremia

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Re: Marriage debt
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2018, 09:40:24 PM »
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  • so women aren't even allowed to use marriage for concupiscence anymore.
    You mean "for the quieting of concupiscence"?
    We should tell all the women in the world that they don't have a right to sexual pleasure in marriage.
    Concupiscence ≠ pleasure.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #76 on: September 13, 2018, 10:08:44 PM »
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  • Human rights are an invention of the devil.
    Marriage gives spouses rights over each others' bodies:
    1917 Canon 1081:
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    §2. Matrimonial consent is an act of the will by which each party gives and accepts perpetual and exclusive rights [ius] to the body, for those actions that are of themselves suitable for the generation of children.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #77 on: September 13, 2018, 11:13:23 PM »
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  • There is no "right to have pleasure" as was said in the original comment.
    Is there no right to marry?
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    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #78 on: September 13, 2018, 11:34:47 PM »
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  • Is there no right to marry?

    No. If person X had a right to marry, then there had to be a person Y with the duty to marry X. Is there a duty to marry?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #79 on: September 14, 2018, 08:12:47 AM »
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  • That's not a "human right" as proposed by apologists of "human rights".

    It is a right to do what one's duty is, and thus a right of God. God has the right that men don't prevent other men from doing what God wills them to do.

    There is no "right to have pleasure" as was said in the original comment.

    We're talking about rights given to human beings by God ... as explained in Canon Law.

    What married couples have a right to is the primary and secondary ends of marital relations.  Among the secondary ends of marital relations are the increase of mutual affection and allaying of concupiscence.  Pleasure is a means to both those ends.  Since couples have a right to these ends, they also have a right to the means to these ends.  Consequently, they do in fact have a right to pleasure.


    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #80 on: September 14, 2018, 10:18:34 AM »
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  • Yes, we know that concupiscence does not mean sexual pleasure. 

    Can I just say that Ladislaus is consistently the most reliably unbiased, correct poster here? You're always really great! I'm sure lots of other people trust his opinions as well. Keep up the good work 👍

    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #81 on: September 14, 2018, 05:47:10 PM »
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  • No. If person X had a right to marry, then there had to be a person Y with the duty to marry X. Is there a duty to marry?
    If it's God's will.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #82 on: September 15, 2018, 07:52:52 AM »
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  • We're talking about rights given to human beings by God ... as explained in Canon Law.

    Canon Law speaks about a duty, about matrimonial duty.

    One has no right to have a spouse which does not sin against matrimonial duties. You must thank God if he or she doesn't.


    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #83 on: September 15, 2018, 07:57:18 AM »
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  • If it's God's will.
    In general, God wills that we keep his commandments and leaves the details of how we do that up to us. One can choose this or that spouse or none at all.

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #84 on: September 15, 2018, 03:55:32 PM »
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  • In general, God wills that we keep his commandments and leaves the details of how we do that up to us. One can choose this or that spouse or none at all.
    But for some people to avoid sin, they must marry because they do not "contain themselves" and "it is better [for them] to marry than to be burnt" (1 Cor. 7:9) in sins of lust, fornication, etc.
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #85 on: September 15, 2018, 04:26:46 PM »
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  • But for some people to avoid sin, they must marry because they do not "contain themselves" and "it is better [for them] to marry than to be burnt" (1 Cor. 7:9) in sins of lust, fornication, etc.
    If a man or a woman marries only to satisfy the sins of the flesh, I pity their poor children. Instead, a couple who plans to marry should seek to purify themselves and live a life of purity and holiness so that together they can enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
    Marriage is to be a school of sanctity, a Domestic Church, where parents give of themselves unselfishly and lovingly to the raising of their children so that their children will become citizens of the Heavenly Kingdom.
    Lord have mercy.


    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #86 on: September 15, 2018, 09:23:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anonymous
    In general, God wills that we keep his commandments and leaves the details of how we do that up to us. One can choose this or that spouse or none at all.
    But for some people to avoid sin, they must marry because they do not "contain themselves" and "it is better [for them] to marry than to be burnt" (1 Cor. 7:9) in sins of lust, fornication, etc.

    St. Paul just recommends a way for some, which seems more appropriate for them, which makes it easier for them to keep the commands.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #87 on: September 15, 2018, 09:38:32 PM »
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  • It would be best if we all remained celibate and did not marry and let God raise up children of Abraham from the stones. :soapbox:

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #88 on: September 15, 2018, 10:11:35 PM »
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  • It would be best if we all remained celibate and did not marry and let God raise up children of Abraham from the stones. :soapbox:
    It is de fide that celibacy and virginity are superior states, but that doesn't imply God wills everyone to those higher states.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #89 on: September 15, 2018, 10:22:30 PM »
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  • If a man or a woman marries only to satisfy the sins of the flesh, I pity their poor children.
    The quieting of concupiscence (concupiscentiæ sedatio, as Pope Pius XI descriptively calls it in Casti Connubii) is a secondary end of marriage.
    Instead, a couple who plans to marry should seek to purify themselves and live a life of purity and holiness so that together they can enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
    If that's their goal, then why marry? Such an end can be achieved safer and more readily in the religious than the married state.
    The primary end of marriage is the procreation and education of children, not the sanctification of the spouses.
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