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Author Topic: Marriage debt  (Read 8235 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Marriage debt
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2018, 12:22:21 PM »
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  • There are a lot of women with very high sex drives and are turned down by men even though they need it. This stereotype needs to die out that women don’t want sex very much.
    Yes, as St. Thomas wrote: husband and wife are equal with respect to the marriage debt.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #16 on: September 08, 2018, 12:27:11 PM »
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  • a priest will become extremely grateful that he's a priest once he's starts hearing confessions, and listens to the drama, struggles, and sufferings of married couples.
    Dealing with married people has got to be one of priests' bigger crosses.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #17 on: September 08, 2018, 12:42:14 PM »
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  • Ah yes, Catholic birth control. Not recommended.

    I can say that in both cases of my family members husbands refusing the marriage debt, the financial circuмstances are not that of extreme poverty. More like, it would be too difficult to work extra hours or let go of entertainment like cable tv, movies and going out to dinner. Really sad when husbands consider that ‘hardship’.


    Exactly what I'm talking about.

    Pretty sad when a person chooses ONE LESS SOUL, one less human being, possibly going to heaven for eternity, so that they can have some restaurant crew cook them a meal once in a while. So gluttony is more important than having another child -- they'd rather tickle their palate with something tasty they can't make at home. Or watching TV? Which movies and shows is this sorry excuse for a Catholic watching? They're all produced by Jєωιѕн Hollywood, who individually and as a group fight against God and His Christ exactly like they did 2000 years ago.

    There isn't a single TV show or movie not lousy with Feminism, and none of them give a true Catholic worldview. Whenever Catholics appear, it is always distorted. I always have to cringe. You never see true Catholic Saints (balanced, wise, holy, the type that would be canonized by the Church) on the big screen. EVER.

    You know, it's these same reasons that get non-Catholic men to root for abortion. They make their girlfriends get abortions, strongly vote for it, etc. and they won't be blameless before God for it. But when the women want abortions, it's for the same reasons -- they want to be able to afford eating out, enjoying filthy Hollywood movies laced with countless errors, vain and immodest clothing, expensive chemicals to put on their face (also from vanity), etc.

    When you see or read about how they rip babies apart in the womb -- just remember why people do it. Restaurant food. TV. Netflix. Going to the movies. That's why I have a special disdain for all such worldly activities, since so many have chosen this fluff over human life.

    Long story short, gluttony, sloth and worldliness can be DEADLY as well. If they lead one to choose comfort, luxuries and pleasures over life -- to prevent another life or even kill a living baby in the womb -- they can't be too harmless.

    Matthew

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #18 on: September 08, 2018, 12:51:07 PM »
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  • Yes, as St. Thomas wrote: husband and wife are equal with respect to the marriage debt.
    True of course, but that's usually not an issue. From what I've read and heard in both Catholic and non-Catholic circles, it's usually the man that wants the debt as often as possible, and the woman who is the limiting factor.

    So while the Church keeps things fair and says that both must render the debt, this usually has no practical effect on the men. Sure, there are some exceptions to the general rule. Some women have above-average sex drives.  Some women can also grow beards -- and probably for the same reason (testosterone). And some men are clinically Low-T. But the exception proves the rule, so...

    Matthew

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #19 on: September 08, 2018, 12:58:51 PM »
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  • I know of spouses who are so much against who they call nfp, yet know nothing about it.  They see "nfp" like a 4 letter word.  Truth is, it is the teaching of God's design.  The anatomy and physiology.  In of itself, it is not evil.  What can be is the attitude of why we wait.  Serious reason, should be.  But even so, I have seen spouses who may accept to learn and still say no to it.  The 2 must come to discussion and decision.

    NFP is the Catholic version of birth control.  Stop spewing this nonsense.  Notice the euphemism.  If it's "natural" then it's "family planning", whereas it's "birth control" if it's "artificial".  In both cases the formal intent is the same.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #20 on: September 08, 2018, 01:01:06 PM »
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  • If there is a serious reason, poverty, medical, etc., the rhythm method may be used as taught by Pope Pius XII.  

    No.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #21 on: September 08, 2018, 01:01:47 PM »
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  • What happens if one spouse thinks that there are serious reasons to abstain for a longer period (more than a year) and the other does not agree? Keeping in mind that one is radically opposed to nfp in all circuмstances, How is the matter resolved? Would it be sinful for the other to continuously deny the marriage debt?

    Consult a Traditional Catholic priest to determine whether hypothetical circuмstance meets the requisite conditions.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #22 on: September 08, 2018, 01:04:44 PM »
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  • "If the husband squanders his income and compels his wife to provide for their livelihood, she need not render the marriage debt. But, if the family must live in poverty through no fault of the husband, there is no reason for refusing the debt; neither does the circuмstance that more children would necessitate greater restrictions on the family constitute such a reason."

    :laugh1:

    This makes the wife sound like a prostitute, rendering the debt in exchange for her "livelihood".  So the husband makes a bad business deal and the wife can refuse to render the debt?  I'm not buying this one.  Marriage is for richer or for poorer, and I don't see any compelling reason that the debt isn't required even in a situation where the husband is positively derelict in his duty to provide.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #23 on: September 08, 2018, 01:59:32 PM »
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  • :laugh1:

    This makes the wife sound like a prostitute, rendering the debt in exchange for her "livelihood".  
    :laugh1:
    What a stupid comment.

    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #24 on: September 08, 2018, 05:56:30 PM »
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  • NFP is the Catholic version of birth control.  Stop spewing this nonsense.  Notice the euphemism.  If it's "natural" then it's "family planning", whereas it's "birth control" if it's "artificial".  In both cases the formal intent is the same.


    I agree the intent of NFP is to have sɛҳuąƖ relations without the inconvenience of conceiving a child, which is the Godly purpose of intimacy.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #25 on: September 08, 2018, 06:23:26 PM »
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  • My sister had a husband who did not wish to be with her much.  Turned out he was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ who gave my sister herpes.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #26 on: September 08, 2018, 06:53:46 PM »
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  • Your opinion is that it is not recommended.  It is only your opinion.  It is for the couple to decide, so long as they fall within the reasons that the practice is determined lawful by the Pope.  


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #27 on: September 08, 2018, 06:55:12 PM »
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  • I agree the intent of NFP is to have sɛҳuąƖ relations without the inconvenience of conceiving a child, which is the Godly purpose of intimacy.
    That video is Dimond junk theology.  

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #28 on: September 08, 2018, 06:56:42 PM »
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  • No.
    Then you are at odds with the Pope.  I’ll listen and obey him, not you.

    Online Geremia

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    Re: Marriage debt
    « Reply #29 on: September 08, 2018, 11:52:43 PM »
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  • That video is Dimond junk theology. 
    Yes, he didn't discuss marriage debt at all.
    At 10:10 he says: "NFP is not abstinence; NFP is selective abstinence"! Seems like a contradiction, but maybe he means that abstinence to avoid children is sinful (is it?), but (à la 1 Cor. 7:5) abstinence to be able to devote oneself more to prayer is not.
    I didn't know this Dimond bro. believes in "papal error" (@24:22).
    I liked his criticism of Humanæ Vitæ, though (@46:00).

    This Dimond bro. also seems to think natural marital relations without the intention to have children is a mortal sin, but it is at most only venial:
    Quote from: St. Thomas
    there are only two ways in which married persons can come together without any sin at all, namely in order to have offspring, and in order to pay the debt. otherwise it is always at least a venial sin.
    (Summa suppl. q. 49 a. 5 co.).
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