Author Topic: Lover of Truth is going overboard (Read 1285 times)

parentsfortruth · « **on:** August 06, 2013, 07:32:22 AM »

Hey, Lover of Truth, can you please pipe down on the constant "anti-feenyite" threads on the board? They're making a lot of people sick. There's no reason to continue hammering on this issue. I think people got your message and you need to just let it rest, please. Find some other pet peeve of yours to hammer on for once. Thanks!

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2013, 11:44:03 AM »

By the way, I never post anonymously here. I put this here for the people that agree that wish to post anonymously themselves if they wish.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2013, 11:48:38 AM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

By the way, I never post anonymously here. I put this here for the people that agree that wish to post anonymously themselves if they wish.

Good idea this might get a lot of responses. I post the truth, a common error of the day pertaining to the faith. If people were sick of it they would stop responding.

Perhaps would would tell someone speaking out against contraception the same?

Is the contraception issue more important than the salvation issue itself?

Thanks for your opinion but I don't share it.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2013, 11:50:30 AM »

Was this the type of post you were mad at:

Fenton commenting on Singulari quadam by Pius IX:

If we are to understand this teaching, we must not allow ourselves to fail to realize that there is absolutely no middle ground between the state of supernatural sanctifying grace and the state of sin or aversion from God. Any man who loves God with a love of friendship or benevolence, sincerely desiring and intending to do His will and preferring to suffer anything rather than to offend Him has divine supernatural charity and is in the state of grace. If he dies in that state, he will inevitably attain to the Beatific Vision. And, incidentally, if he has the love of charity for God, he is “within” the true Church of Jesus Christ, at least by sincere (although perhaps merely implicit) intention and desire.

But the feeneyite would say:

Any man who loves God with a love of friendship or benevolence, sincerely desiring and intending to do His will and preferring to suffer anything rather than to offend Him has NOT divine supernatural charity and is NOT in the state of grace. OR IF HE IS IN THE STATE OF GRACE HE WILL STILL SURELY BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY. If he dies in that state, he will inevitably BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY. And, incidentally, if he has the love of charity for God, he is OUTSIDE the true Church of Jesus Christ.

The top paragraph is the Catholic teaching.

The bottom paragraph is the Feeneyite teaching.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2013, 11:56:37 AM »

Quote from: Guest

Was this the type of post you were mad at:

Fenton commenting on Singulari quadam by Pius IX:

If we are to understand this teaching, we must not allow ourselves to fail to realize that there is absolutely no middle ground between the state of supernatural sanctifying grace and the state of sin or aversion from God. Any man who loves God with a love of friendship or benevolence, sincerely desiring and intending to do His will and preferring to suffer anything rather than to offend Him has divine supernatural charity and is in the state of grace. If he dies in that state, he will inevitably attain to the Beatific Vision. And, incidentally, if he has the love of charity for God, he is “within” the true Church of Jesus Christ, at least by sincere (although perhaps merely implicit) intention and desire.

But the feeneyite would say:

Any man who loves God with a love of friendship or benevolence, sincerely desiring and intending to do His will and preferring to suffer anything rather than to offend Him has NOT divine supernatural charity and is NOT in the state of grace. OR IF HE IS IN THE STATE OF GRACE HE WILL STILL SURELY BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY. If he dies in that state, he will inevitably BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY. And, incidentally, if he has the love of charity for God, he is OUTSIDE the true Church of Jesus Christ.

The top paragraph is the Catholic teaching.

The bottom paragraph is the Feeneyite teaching.

Though obviously in the below paragraph they are talking about NON-MEMBERS. The Feeneyites definitely admit members can be saved. It is the non-members who are not baptized with water who burn eternally even if they love God with a love of friendship or benevolence, sincerely desiring and intending to do His will and preferring to suffer anything rather than to offend Him. It is the non-members who despite having divine supernatural charity and being in the state of grace who burns in Hell for ever. Because, well without water what are you a clanging gong a tinkling bell or something. Yes if you have the love of charity for God and are a non-member you are outside the Church. Period. Tough nuts to you all. God judges the water not the heart.

It is sickening that people don't get the Catholic teaching on the issue. Very sad. And somewhat surprising.

But I believe there are many sincere people here that accept the truth when it is presented. If one person can be brought out of error or heresy all the comments from those who think it does not matter or who obstinately err on the topic are worth it.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2013, 12:10:23 PM »

The so-called anti-Feeneyite rhetoric just glosses over the reality of the situation.

Your person who has perfect good will and love for God and all this desire to do all His Will DOES NOT EXIST. If they did, they would be Catholic.

Every person who believes in the gods of false religions has made a profession that theirs is the true religion. That is what the definition of religion is. Ligare - to bind. They have bound themselves to the tenets of their false gods.

The person who believes in the god of the Jєωs does not love the true God.
The person who believes in the god of the Hindus does not love the true God.
The person who believes in the god of the Mormons does not love the true God.
The person who believes in the god of the
Baptists
Methodists
Episcopalians
Pentecostals
Bahai
Mohammedans
Sufis
Tibetan Buddhists
Zoroastrians
Lutherans
Christian Scientists
Animists
Macuмba
Jainists

or any of the millions of other false religions

DOES NOT LOVE THE TRUE GOD.

Ergo, the person who was truly of good will would be brought to the Faith OR THEY SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST.

To be an adherent of a false religion is to DENY CATHOLIC DOGMA.

To deny an article of Catholic dogma is to be outside the Church and thus lost.

Ergo, the person who is an adherent of a false religion is outside the Church and thus lost.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2013, 12:36:45 PM »

Quote from: Guest

The so-called anti-Feeneyite rhetoric just glosses over the reality of the situation.

Your person who has perfect good will and love for God and all this desire to do all His Will DOES NOT EXIST. If they did, they would be Catholic.

Every person who believes in the gods of false religions has made a profession that theirs is the true religion. That is what the definition of religion is. Ligare - to bind. They have bound themselves to the tenets of their false gods.

The person who believes in the god of the Jєωs does not love the true God.
The person who believes in the god of the Hindus does not love the true God.
The person who believes in the god of the Mormons does not love the true God.
The person who believes in the god of the
Baptists
Methodists
Episcopalians
Pentecostals
Bahai
Mohammedans
Sufis
Tibetan Buddhists
Zoroastrians
Lutherans
Christian Scientists
Animists
Macuмba
Jainists

or any of the millions of other false religions

DOES NOT LOVE THE TRUE GOD.

Ergo, the person who was truly of good will would be brought to the Faith OR THEY SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST.

To be an adherent of a false religion is to DENY CATHOLIC DOGMA.

To deny an article of Catholic dogma is to be outside the Church and thus lost.

Ergo, the person who is an adherent of a false religion is outside the Church and thus lost.

Do you agree that actual grace works outside (as well as inside) the Church?

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2013, 04:41:36 PM »

I'm not mad at any post here. I'm just sick of seeing that every other thread is one about BOB/BOD, when really it's an argument that the devil is using to divide Catholics. It's really kind of ingenious really, when you think about it. But the devil is no dummy.

The Church teaches, and we know, from multiple anathema statements, that there is no salvation outside the Church. That's just reality. Whatever "what ifs" you want to insert into that "except this person because he's considered 'baptized,' (even without water baptism)" leave that to God, okay?

Can the Church pronounce someone in Hell? No, no exceptions to that. Just no. Can GOD do that? Yup, pretty sure that's HIS job. Leave the particular judgment to Him, because He's the one who deals specifically with that. Are you there at the particular judgment of the individual? No? Then what business do you have saying where God is going to send that soul? He will decide that, not you. And yes, there's no question this is a "what if" situation, and sure, there's going to be tons of argument on either side, but I'll tell you one thing. The Church always deals in absolutes in her pronouncements. There are no -what if's-. You can speculate all you want, but we already know the solemn teaching of the Chuch which is--

Extra Ecclessiam Nullus Salus.

And that's what we know for sure. Anything beyond that? See above.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2013, 05:01:11 PM »

Quote

The so-called anti-Feeneyite rhetoric just glosses over the reality of the situation.

Your person who has perfect good will and love for God and all this desire to do all His Will DOES NOT EXIST. If they did, they would be Catholic.

I wouldn't say that, there was a time I was novus ordo. Many trad Catholics today were at one point in their life a member of a false religion or atheist.

It's about time someone like Lover of Truth stood up to error instead of indulging on some racist thread here.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2013, 05:08:28 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Quote

The so-called anti-Feeneyite rhetoric just glosses over the reality of the situation.

Your person who has perfect good will and love for God and all this desire to do all His Will DOES NOT EXIST. If they did, they would be Catholic.

I wouldn't say that, there was a time I was novus ordo. Many trad Catholics today were at one point in their life a member of a false religion or atheist.

It's about time someone like Lover of Truth stood up to error instead of indulging on some racist thread here.

There's that word again.

I really don't see any racism here. Would you point it out for a simpleton like me please?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2013, 05:26:36 PM »

Are you talking about Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus? Or are you debating whether or not there can be a Baptism of Desire? As for the former, it has been thrice defined. As for the latter, it gets dangerously close to Universal Salvation. I'm not saying that it is impossible--because only God is the judge of that--but I wouldn't want someone I love to neglect receiving actual Baptism as if it wasn't necessary.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2013, 06:10:39 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Are you talking about Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus? Or are you debating whether or not there can be a Baptism of Desire? As for the former, it has been thrice defined. As for the latter, it gets dangerously close to Universal Salvation. I'm not saying that it is impossible--because only God is the judge of that--but I wouldn't want someone I love to neglect receiving actual Baptism as if it wasn't necessary.

So whoever gave me a thumbs down, are you saying that you wouldn't want someone you love to become Catholic and be baptized? Or do you just not believe in Extra Ecclesium nulla salus? Perhaps you misunderstood my post? Please explain yourself.

P.S. Maybe I should clarify: I'm speaking of implicit desire.

:confused1:

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2013, 06:26:03 PM »

Might be because you also posted...

Quote

but I wouldn't want someone I love to neglect receiving actual Baptism as if it wasn't necessary

and that is not what baptism of desire means at all. Just the opposite in fact, baptism by water should never be neglected.

If I remember correctly we had a young lady from Iran a member here, who wanted to be baptized but could not find anyone who would administer the sacrament for her. I wonder what happened to her, I forgot her name.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2013, 06:41:20 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Might be because you also posted...
Quote
but I wouldn't want someone I love to neglect receiving actual Baptism as if it wasn't necessary

and that is not what baptism of desire means at all. Just the opposite in fact, baptism by water should never be neglected.

If I remember correctly we had a young lady from Iran a member here, who wanted to be baptized but could not find anyone who would administer the sacrament for her. I wonder what happened to her, I forgot her name.

Which is exactly what I meant: "baptism by water should never be neglected." Did I word it wrong?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2013, 07:41:39 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Might be because you also posted...
Quote
but I wouldn't want someone I love to neglect receiving actual Baptism as if it wasn't necessary

and that is not what baptism of desire means at all. Just the opposite in fact, baptism by water should never be neglected.

If I remember correctly we had a young lady from Iran a member here, who wanted to be baptized but could not find anyone who would administer the sacrament for her. I wonder what happened to her, I forgot her name.

Do you mean she could not find a Catholic anywhere who would baptize her? That's very sad.

Author Topic: Lover of Truth is going overboard (Read 1285 times)

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