Author Topic: Living Wage vs. Minimum Wage (Read 2630 times)

Änσnymσus · « **on:** May 24, 2014, 09:25:48 PM »

This really belongs in the Paul Rand thread, but I wish to remain anonymous. I work full time + take extra jobs for past 36 years, 32 in a professional field, but at low pay for reasons of faith. Due to medical debt, I am for the first time ever, forced to take groceries from a no questions asked Protestant food pantry. It was that or risk my still tenuous health by not eating, forgoing necessary medication, or not paying the rent. IMO, those employers who claim to be Christian as is mine, should pay their employees a living wage whether the government legislates it or not. I inquired about SNAP only to be told I do not qualify. To receive government assistance, I have to have a dependent child or be unemployed for six months. I am single and must support myself. Did I do the right thing or not? I see government assistance as to be avoided at nearly all costs. Once on welfare, few ever get off it.

crossbro · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2014, 04:03:59 AM »

Okay, you give everyone a living wage and businesses will go out of business. Not only will those employees not have jobs- neither will the owners.

Then the economy spirals because of inflation, everyone will be paying more for everything and then the living wage continues to increase.

Instead of compelling govt to force employers to subsidize your income with unearned monies, how about cutting corners like shopping at Walmart ?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2014, 06:09:05 AM »

OP responds, in my recent situation, I'd have been shoplifting at Walmart. Was down to exactly $4.13, not sufficient for bus fare to get to Walmart. Please don't tell me to walk or ride a bike. The closest Walmart is too far away for a healthy person to do that.
Was it wrong of me to request groceries from Protestants when there are no Catholics to ask and the government requires me to have a child out of wedlock or be a lazy bum?

Tiffany · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2014, 08:46:56 AM »

Quote from: crossbro

how about cutting corners like shopping at Walmart ?

You need money to shop at Walmart. Again we have the more comfortable blaming the poor for the being poor for suffering. If only they _____.

To the OP I've found outreaches vary. One here has a church service and if you attend you can go through the give away line. Others allow you to get food 4x or 3x per year and no prayer or church service required. If that is no questions asked it sounds like the later, nothing wrong with that.

The unemployed for 6 months sounds funny though, if you have less than $150 and no savings or income you should be eligible for emergency SNAP benefits but what is on paper isn't always how things work IRL. It's ridiculous families with very young children who eat like birds might get $150 in SNAP for each child plus WIC, maybe eat at school and or daycare too, but older single people are waiting for outdated damaged cans to bring home after eating lunch at the soup kitchen.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2014, 09:07:10 AM »

Quote from: crossbro

Okay, you give everyone a living wage and businesses will go out of business. Not only will those employees not have jobs- neither will the owners.

Then the economy spirals because of inflation, everyone will be paying more for everything and then the living wage continues to increase.

Instead of compelling govt to force employers to subsidize your income with unearned monies, how about cutting corners like shopping at Walmart ?

Here is simple Economics 101 that has been around since the economics of the Middle Ages (before the onset of the Enlightenment and the liberal doctrine of economics you follow came into being).

To let the nation thrive you must support the domestic market, otherwise the value of the money decreases and foreign nations become richer at the expense of both domestic workers and the value of the money. Therefore if you buy cheap, foreign goods down at Wal-Mart, while you love it because it is "cheap," it will only be cheap for so long since your decision to buy from foreign sources has lead to domestic workers losing their jobs and has destroyed the value of the dollar. This liberal doctrine of the free trade and free markets mentality based on the ideals of the Enlightenment and the liberal doctrine of the primacy of the individaul over the common good has been the downfall of every nation that has followed it starting with Endland back in the 1830's.

Inflation is not caused by the riasing of wages as you claim but actually by the decling value of the money. It is actually within the government's policy to support a living wage so the State can support the ideal of large families and a heightened birth rate.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2014, 09:08:32 AM »

The last post was mine.

Note: I don't know what the hell is wrong with the posting feature but I typed "market" in the thread and it is not showing

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2014, 09:40:55 AM »

God bless you traditional guy

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2014, 09:53:45 AM »

Thank you although I will say I consider economics an inexact science and unimportant and consider it unfortunate that we Catholics (myself included) obsess about it all of the time.

If there should be any obsession it should be about our immorality.

crossbro · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2014, 11:20:26 AM »

Quote

Inflation is not caused by the riasing of wages as you claim but actually by the decling value of the money. It is actually within the government's policy to support a living wage so the State can support the ideal of large families and a heightened birth rate.

Money declines in value as prices go up because of compelled inflated wages.

I have two business degrees, don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining.

People are not equal and they are not the same. The one thing they do have in common is time and how they use it.

The OPs problem is not that the government will not implement policies to subsidize him into a luxury home or a car, or that he was treated unfairly by his employer. He used his time poorly and failed to plan for the future.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2014, 11:46:20 AM »

Quote

Was it wrong of me to request groceries from Protestants when there are no Catholics to ask and the government requires me to have a child out of wedlock or be a lazy bum?

I know a lady who spent decades doing volunteer work for the Church in administration and social services. When her husband was alive they gave generously to the Church and it's related charities.

When her husband passed away and she was the one who needed help, guess where the Church was ? - It was nowhere to be found.

"Well, our charities are for families with children sweetheart."

The only religion that I know that has a network support system for it's member is the LDS. LDS will network you into careers in the public and private sectors, will subsidize you, members will support your business. If you are stranded anywhere in the world and you are Mormon they will give you a ticket home. In fact, back in the late 80s the problem of the FBI being top heavy with Mormons that it came into the public spotlight.

The Catholic Church is the largest provider of social services in the world and the 2ns largest after the govt in the USA. But unless you are in homeless shelter or a food line or wearing previously owned clothes you don't know that.

The problem is the Church does not network services that have any value to Catholics.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2014, 02:42:13 PM »

Quote from: crossbro

I have two business degrees, don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining.

Having two business degrees means nothing to me as the basic premise they teach about economics in school is the libertarian (i.e. liberal) system of economics of free trade and free markets and unregulated capitalism.

Money declines in value because the domestic market is not supported by the consumer and is outsourced away to foreign markets. That is why free trade destroys the value of money and outsources jobs and factories.

Why is it that your system of democratic capitalism has never succeeded anywhere in the world (don't say America since America is failing on the principles of democratic capitalism) while my system of mercantilism, protectionism, authoritarianism and autocracy has had countless examples of success?

Why is it there have been countless governments over the years that have had a national policy of raising wages of working-class men to create a larger birthrate? Any nation that does not do such a thing is committing ѕυιcιdє.

I will agree with your point that no two people are equal and I reject egalitarianism.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2014, 03:01:49 AM »

Quote from: Tiffany

Quote from: crossbro

how about cutting corners like shopping at Walmart ?

You need money to shop at Walmart. Again we have the more comfortable blaming the poor for the being poor for suffering. If only they _____.

To the OP I've found outreaches vary. One here has a church service and if you attend you can go through the give away line. Others allow you to get food 4x or 3x per year and no prayer or church service required. If that is no questions asked it sounds like the later, nothing wrong with that.

The unemployed for 6 months sounds funny though, if you have less than $150 and no savings or income you should be eligible for emergency SNAP benefits but what is on paper isn't always how things work IRL. It's ridiculous families with very young children who eat like birds might get $150 in SNAP for each child plus WIC, maybe eat at school and or daycare too, but older single people are waiting for outdated damaged cans to bring home after eating lunch at the soup kitchen.

He said he was shoplifting at Walmart.

poche · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2014, 03:15:58 AM »

I think if we are going to talk about living wages and economic theory from a Catholic perspective we need to start with Rerum Novarum.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2014, 06:48:15 PM »

Quote from: Guest

He said he was shoplifting at Walmart.

:really-mad2:Reread the OP! I said I would have been shoplifting, not that I was shoplifting! Better to beg than steal. I couldn't get to Walmart, remember? FYI, I have not "wasted my time" either. I have worked all my life since age 16 and have had a catastrophic medical expense that remains so, even after ObaminationCare paid their approved share. How many of us have $75,000 sitting around just in case? I own nothing but a 12 years old car with over 250k miles on it. In answer to Tiffany the protestant pantry doesn't make you go to a service. They stick a bunch of religious tracts in the bag, that's all. They give a bag of groceries until they run out. You get to choose a few of the items until there's no choice left. Then you take it or leave it.

crossbro · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2014, 07:09:31 PM »

Okay OP, what is 75,000 dollars when married couples are paying 200,000 or more on home mortgages with kids and cars and insurance ?

Complaining that you are not being given benefits or a living wage is not going to help you one bit is it ?

When I was 14, I was delivering newspapers and when I was 16 I was installing floor safes. The CEO of the Knights of Columbus is probably making 1.4 million dollars a year.

If you are subsisting because of religious work then I suggest you get out of that line of work. But nothing is going to change unless you change it yourself. The first thing I suggest you do is move somewhere that it is not going to cost you $5 to get to a Walmart.

Author Topic: Living Wage vs. Minimum Wage (Read 2630 times)

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