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Author Topic: large family  (Read 3063 times)

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Änσnymσus

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large family
« on: June 25, 2016, 08:21:04 AM »
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  • How can a one income catholic family with 15 kids survive?  


    Offline cathman7

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    large family
    « Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 08:42:16 AM »
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  • Sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice.....

    I am not saying it would be easy but I would assume that the older children are either working or can really help around the house with the taking care of the younger children and such.

    All of society is structured to NOT foster the raising of many children but God will give sufficient grace to help families in these trying times.


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    large family
    « Reply #2 on: June 25, 2016, 08:51:09 AM »
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  • if all options have been exercised, the second parent may have to work

    this is if any older children can watch the younger ones

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    large family
    « Reply #3 on: June 25, 2016, 09:34:47 AM »
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  • It's not like you would have all 15 kids in the house at once.  Most likely 15 kids would come over 30 years plus or minus 5.  So you would only have 7-9 in the house at once, unless your older children don't feel like leaving, then you can ask them to pay some 'rent', just a nominal amount to cover their costs.

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    large family
    « Reply #4 on: June 25, 2016, 09:58:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    if all options have been exercised, the second parent may have to work

    this is if any older children can watch the younger ones


    No, mothers should not work outside the home. That would cause far more damage to the family than any financial gain.  


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    large family
    « Reply #5 on: June 25, 2016, 10:56:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    It's not like you would have all 15 kids in the house at once.  Most likely 15 kids would come over 30 years plus or minus 5.  So you would only have 7-9 in the house at once, unless your older children don't feel like leaving, then you can ask them to pay some 'rent', just a nominal amount to cover their costs.

    This, this, this and this.

    As soon as the first one can get a job, whether it's baby sitting, cutting lawns or working at Taco Bell, he keeps enough of his pay check to get him to and from work (with a little padding) till his next paycheck - the rest goes to help his father pay bills. Once he decides he wants to get married, then he needs to start saving and have a little money while he is courting so he needs to help with the bills but you can lower his rent a bit.

    By then there should be two that can help with bills, in a few years maybe 3 or 4 can help.

    It is the parents' responsibility to make sure this happens so they learn the paychecks they get which are being used to help their parents while they are at home, not much will change when they get married and in time will need help with their own bills.  

    Where else is the money expected to come from? - The government?

     


    Offline Matthew

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    large family
    « Reply #6 on: June 25, 2016, 11:35:14 AM »
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    How can a one income catholic family with 15 kids survive?  


    Pardon me for being skeptical and critical, but do you really have 15 children?

    Honestly, I have never met someone with that many children, and I've been alive a while, and Trad Catholic the whole time. I knew one seminarian (Fr. Riccomini) with almost that many siblings. There are few Trad families with more than 8 children, actually.

    My instincts say that this is more of a philosophical conversation for you -- assuming you're not just TROLLING here on CathInfo. You read Catholic doctrine that birth control is wrong, and you discovered that among Traditional Catholics women ideally don't work outside the home. And you are trying to reconcile the two, how the whole thing is supposed to work.

    But you're getting WAY ahead of yourself, I believe. I bet you don't even have 5 children, much less 10 or 15. You might even be a single young man. If you aren't, that's OK. But I've seen single young men (without even a girlfriend) worry about the very topic you bring up. Single young men who should have been much more concerned about getting established (i.e., an actual career/skill that pays more than minimum wage, plus moving out of Mom & Dad's house).

    But here is my advice:

    The world has a lot of errors, which usually take the form of scare tactics. One of these scare tactics is that every couple that rejects birth control WILL LIKELY HAVE double-digit children: 15, for example. Unless the husband or wife is seriously infertile or unhealthy.

    This is false.


    I have been married over 11 years and have 6 children. We are both faithful Catholics in every way. We have never touched birth control. And I am not a long-haul truck driver (away from home all the time) nor have I been deployed overseas. On the contrary, I have been a work-from-home computer programmer since before we were married. We are both healthy.

    And while we're not your typical St. Mary's, KS couple who married before age 20, nevertheless we were married at 24 (her) and 28 (him). So I don't think we qualify for the category of "Irish Birth Control" (which is "marrying late").

    Breastfeeding will naturally space your children. And fertility varies from woman to woman (and from man to man). Some women have to wean their full-time-nursing babies because they got pregnant again, while other women won't get pregnant until after they're DONE breastfeeding their 11 month old. My wife and I have talked to enough Traditional Catholic couples, plus our own experience, to figure this out.

    Another poster pointed out that children do come out at 1 to 2 year intervals, so you're not likely to have more than 8 or 9 in the house at one time. And by the time the older ones are working and/or moved out, they can help you out a bit. But this is only an issue if husband & wife BOTH married before age 20.

    Fertility usually tapers off in a woman's late 30's. The graph looks different for each woman; sometimes the graph looks like a cliff with a steep drop-off at some magical point. Other times, it's more of a linear, gradual decline. But forget about all those videos you watched about fortysomething and fiftysomething women carrying babies to term. That is rare, and requires the aid of science -- and measures that aren't licit for a Catholic (in vitro fertilization, surrogate mothers, onanism, supplemental hormones, etc.), as well as a lot of money!

    As countless white suburban protestants have found out to their dismay, fertility doesn't last as long as they thought! They decide to "start a family" in their mid-30's and realize they no longer can.

    Last but certainly not least, the modern world VASTLY over-estimates how much it costs to raise each child. If you raise your children as modern, suburban white protestants, then YES each one will cost you $1 million to raise to age 18. After all, if each child has his own room, his own entertainment equipment, an expensive birthday party each year, various lessons, a vacation every year, a summer camp every year, gets to enjoy restaurant food on a regular basis, a college fund, etc. then that might be true. But that lifestyle is NOT ideal or necessary -- or even possible when you aren't birth-control limiting your family to just 1 or 2 children.

    Besides, those suburban children end up spoiled anyhow. Let's just say those depressed children who "cut" themselves, etc. don't do that cutting in a large bedroom they share with 3 sisters. No, that cutting usually happens in their OWN ROOM with a computer in it. That is my point.

    In conclusion, these reasons all EXPLAIN the evidence which even YOU should be able to see, if you are actually a Traditional Catholic who attends Mass on Sunday: that there simply aren't many families with more than EIGHT children. Obviously the modern world is full of something, and I don't mean rainbows!

    If you do the math (I was married at 28 and I have 6 children 11 years later) and look at all the guys (and gals!) still single in their 30's...I don't think 15 children is one of the things most Trads need to be worrying about.
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    Änσnymσus

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    large family
    « Reply #7 on: June 25, 2016, 04:07:36 PM »
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  • Here are a few real world examples with which I'm acquainted.

    Family [A]     13 children; age 26, male, married w/1 child, has own HVAC business, wife stays home, age 23, female, single, community college PT/restaurant hostess PT, age 20, male, single, lives overseas w/relatives while attending university, ages 17, male & female twins, finishing high school on-line, both work for oldest, age 16, female, attends nearby state school for deaf, age 14, male, just graduated grade 8 from non-denominational "christian" school, accepted to all boys Catholic high school, does odd jobs, home repair, etc. in neighborhood, age 13, female, attends same school as 14 y.o. brother, helps at home, age 12, male, same as next older sister, age 10, male, age 8, female, age 6, male, last three home schooled by live-in aunt, age 1, male, proud matriarch manages home and children along w/her daughter-in-law.  Father is renowned medical researcher for international agency.  Paternal grandparents, maternal grandmother,  single, older uncle, all live in a "barbell" type row house in ethnic neighborhood of major US city.  Parents, grandparents, uncle, oldest son, possibly his wife are foreign born.  I believe grandparents own numerous rental properties.
    The small backyard is a vegetable garden. They keep some chickens for eggs.  
    This family has lots of support from ethnic community, relatives in US and overseas.  Father has well-paying job.  Let's face it, most Americans don't have these social advantages.

    Family (B)     11 children; age 30, female, single, spec. educ. teacher, lives home, age 28, female, in college/working, lives on own, age 27, male, married, lives overseas, age 23, female, married  lives out of state, age 20, single, lives on own, age 17, male, in last year of specialized (competitive) high school, works PT as part of schooling, age 16, female, all girls Catholic high school, works in library PT, age 13, male, age 11, female, age 8, female, latter three attend privately funded charter school.  Mother is Director of the charter school; father works for state dept. of public health. Large home willed to them from his parents, so no mortgage.  Also live in  ethnic community in major city, also have extensive family network here and overseas.

    Family [C]     16 children, age range 28-9 includes 2 sets of twins, still living at home, 14 y.o. girl twins, age 11 boy, age 9 boy.  Mom had to have surgery, so there'll be no more.  These are Old Order Amish farmers.  Mom's parents live in attached 'dawdy-haus.'  Obviously, this situation is unavailable to most traditional Catholics.

    Family [D]     7 children, no. 8 due in July, age 13, male, age 12 male, age 10, female, age 8, female, age 6, female, age 5, male, age 2, female, almost-arrived baby, a boy.  Dad works in sales for upscale retail chain---is often away on business.  Mom had been working PT nights as a home health aide.  Two eldest boys attend trad. Cath. academy, Mom and grandma home school and care for the others.  They live on family "farm" in second house.  Grandma's son #3 of 10 owns land, farms some, rents, boards animals, has construction business. He and wife have one adopted daughter. (They're medically unable to have own children.)  All but father are cradle tradCats.  Dad was in foster care "homes" from age 3-16; at which point he ran away due to neglect/abuse.  He attends Mass when he's able and is supportive of his family.  Everyone continues to pray that he'll convert.

    Family [E]     8 children; age 17, male, in spec. educ. day program, has mental age of about 7, twin girls, ages 15, age 14, female, has mild mental retardation, age 12, male, age 11, male, has cerebral palsy, age 9, female, age 7, male.  All but oldest are home schooled by unmarried aunt.  Mother had a heart attack three years ago and cancer necessitating a hysterectomy.  The girls do all the housework.  Father has also had a heart attack, but works driving a delivery truck for a local food business as he's able.  They're on disability and live in a house donated by a family in their chapel.  They have use of a donated minivan and the county supplies special transportation for their physically handicapped son.  They're able to have a vegetable garden and keep chickens.  Between donations, part-time work, social services, and doing without the so-called necessities of modern life such as TV, cell phones for everyone, vacations, eating out, new clothes, etc., they get by.  Mom and Dad have cell phones.  There is one desktop computer for everyone.  They wear hand-me-downs, go to yard sales, thrift stores.  
    While many, if not most tradCats look down on people like these, one thing I can't fail to notice is that love is not absent in this family.  The children are well-adjusted and respect each other and their parents.  Despite poverty, their door is always open to guests.  They share that which they have and don't worry about what they have not.  They have the blessing of living close to a chapel, so are at Mass nearly every day.

    If Our Lord deigns to give a couple 15 children, He'll supply for their needs.  If it means being poor, He'll supply the graces necessary to be poor.  Of course, that entails the parents having great faith, trust, and cooperation with Grace.  




     


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    large family
    « Reply #8 on: June 25, 2016, 04:25:57 PM »
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  • I am firmly convinced that God provides when you trust in Him and follow His law.

    Whether he provides by giving the man of the house great talents (giving him an edge in the business world), great health, great energy, skill with money and frugality, an inheritance, a good job, or some generous benefactors at his church, or even a combination of these. God has a million ways to provide. God is almighty.

    And if the government says you qualify for food stamps based on your income and family size, then by all means take advantage of that as well. The welfare state isn't going anywhere, so we might as well have some small percent of those resources going to good traditional Catholic families. Supporting traditional Catholic families is literally in society's best interest.

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    large family
    « Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 07:57:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    if all options have been exercised, the second parent may have to work

    this is if any older children can watch the younger ones


    with 15 children, even if there are only 6 or 7 at the same time in the house, i do not see how the mothe can work outside ?

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    large family
    « Reply #10 on: July 03, 2016, 11:14:33 AM »
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  • There are TONS of families in Ohio where the norm is 10+.  It's amazing what you do without, if you think about it.  God will provide, and He often does so more abundantly than we need.


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    « Reply #11 on: July 03, 2016, 12:29:29 PM »
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  • Well, if one has that many kids, a good percentage of them will be old enough to contribute to the family.

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    large family
    « Reply #12 on: July 03, 2016, 05:27:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    There are few Trad families with more than 8 children, actually.



    Ha! This is a really funny statement.

    You should see my parish. There are MANY families with more than 8, and there are at least 3 families with 12 or more!

    The most I have ever heard of was 16 - and that was Mrs. Beck. God bless her, lovely lady! She married when she was 16, and has 3 religious, if I recall.

    I have six and barely have any street cred in my parish...haha.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    « Reply #13 on: July 03, 2016, 05:36:05 PM »
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  • I went to elementary school with a lot of Hmong immigrants from Laos/Thailand who had 10+ children. Given that it's Minnesota, a fair amount may be trad Catholics.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

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    large family
    « Reply #14 on: July 03, 2016, 05:40:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew

    Fertility usually tapers off in a woman's late 30's.


    I think this is a myth.

    A myth sold by the hormone birth control contracepting Big Pharma public.

    I believe for secular (or Protestant) women who have spent all their younger years on the pill that conceiving in their 30's is difficult.

    However, I have known no such decline in fertility in Traditional Catholic women who have never practiced any BC. They just keep right on going, having babies every 1-2 years, up until it runs out altogether, usually in their forties.