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Author Topic: Kneeling down for Angelus in public  (Read 2307 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Kneeling down for Angelus in public
« on: July 16, 2023, 08:13:36 PM »
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    • Hello I need your prayers. I am unable to bring my self to be kneel for the angelus when in public. I try to do the Angelus immediately at 12pm though if I am occupied (eg driving) I will wait until I can stop and pray. Many time in public I will pray the Angelus either sitting or standing....

    I have no issue kneeling and praying in private but in public I do not like bringing attention to myself. How to overcome this?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #1 on: July 16, 2023, 08:20:14 PM »
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    • Why do you need to "overcome this"?  If you do this in public, people will think you're either a nutcase or a Muslim.  Unless there's some possible benefit to others from doing it, it could be more a case of pride to feel that you're required to kneel somehow.  We're not strictly required to even say the Angelus prayer.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #2 on: July 16, 2023, 08:28:05 PM »
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    • In parochial school in the 1950's - early 1960's we said the Angelus standing.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #3 on: July 16, 2023, 08:29:18 PM »
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    • It is not customary to kneel for the Angelus, but to stand and genuflect at “The Word was made flesh”. Of course, if you are in a situation that prevents genuflection, just bow your head, or some other gesture of adoration of the Word.

    Don’t fret about this. There are no hard and fast rules, just love God and do your best.
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #4 on: July 16, 2023, 09:25:18 PM »
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    • As Nadir said, we pray the angelus standing.  However according to the Raccolta it is to be prayed kneeling except on Sunday.  Like the rosary, we prefer to do the same every day instead of what is asked of us.
    Partial excerpt from the 1887 Raccolta.

    75.  THE "ANGELUS DOMINI," ETC., OR THE "REGINA COELI," ETC.

    The seraphic Doctor St. Bonaventura, in the General Chapter of his Order, held at Pisa in the year 1262, directed his religious to exhort the faithful to say, at the sound of the church-bell at even, three times the Ave Maria, in veneration of the mystery of the Incarnation of the Son of God in the most pure womb of the Blessed Virgin, by the operation of the Holy Ghost. This same devotion, which bad been already introduced in the episcopal church of Saintes (the capital of Saintonge in Western France), was approved by Pope John XXII., by a bull dated from Avignon, Oct. 13, 1318, who granted several days of Indulgence to all who should practise it with contrition; and this grant was renewed by him, May 7, 1327, in the injunction he sent to his Cardinal Vicar, to give at even in Rome a signal, by the sounding of the church-bell, to remind all persons to say these three Ave Maria's. See F. Theodore a Spiritu Sancto, de Indulgentiis, part ii. art. iv. § v.
    In later times Pope Benedict XIII. opened the treasury of the Church to bestow greater Indulgences in furtherance of this pious practice; being desirous that all the faithful, not once only but many times a day, should implore the protection of the Ever-blessed Virgin, and venerate the grand mystery of the Incarnation. Accordingly, by a universal Brief, Injuncta nobis, of Sept. 14, 1724, he granted to all Christians who, at the sound of the bell, morning, noon, and even, at sunset, shall say on their knees daily the Angelus Domini, &c., with three Ave Marias, -

    Afterwards Pope Benedict XIV., by a formal notice issued by his Cardinal-Vicar, published in the year 1742, April 20, confirmed the above-named Indulgences, at the same time declaring that the Angelus Domini was to be said standing, every Sunday in the year, beginning from first Vespers, that is, Saturday evening; and that in Paschal tide the Regina coeli, should be said in its stead, always standing, with its proper V., R., and prayer.

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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #5 on: July 16, 2023, 09:37:39 PM »
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    • What is said in the Raccolta are the conditions to gain the indulgences.

    If you do it another way, you are still pleasing God, you are just not receiving all the indulgences listed.

    Don't be scrupulous about this.

    There is no obligation to pray the Angelus, let alone pray it with your body in a certain posture.

    Many times scrupulosity becomes an issue because people confuse what is mandatory with what is optional.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #6 on: July 16, 2023, 09:49:22 PM »
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    • Thanks for the answers everyone.
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #7 on: July 16, 2023, 09:57:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on July 16, 2023, 09:37:39 PM
    What is said in the Raccolta are the conditions to gain the indulgences.

    If you do it another way, you are still pleasing God, you are just not receiving all the indulgences listed.

    Don't be scrupulous about this.

    There is no obligation to pray the Angelus, let alone pray it with your body in a certain posture.

    Many times scrupulosity becomes an issue because people confuse what is mandatory with what is optional.
    If what you say is correct, why would you pray the angelus and NOT obtain the indulgences for yourself or the souls in purgatory?  Why throw away what the church offers?
    There is nothing scrupulous about it.
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #8 on: July 16, 2023, 10:28:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 16, 2023, 08:13:36 PM
    Hello I need your prayers. I am unable to bring my self to be kneel for the angelus when in public. I try to do the Angelus immediately at 12pm though if I am occupied (eg driving) I will wait until I can stop and pray. Many time in public I will pray the Angelus either sitting or standing....

    I have no issue kneeling and praying in private but in public I do not like bringing attention to myself. How to overcome this?

    There is a distinction between having fervent piety and weirdness in matters of the Faith. Things that will be seen as ostentatious -- not by people outside the Church (who will see a devotion as small as saying grace as weird) -- but by other Catholics, should probably be avoided. Kneeling in public for the Angelus is certainly not necessary and one could make the case that it would push people outside of the Church further away.

    St. Louis De Montfort his The Secret of the Rosary gives the example of a blue-collar worker who would be completely justified in saying his rosary while working (a far cry from kneeling with your eyes closed / focused on a picture of Our Lord or Our Lady) as long as it is said devoutly. 

    I actually have personal experience with this in the form of my reconversion story. When I was beginning to reconvert to the Catholic faith, I visited a Novus Ordo church on Easter Sunday. During the service we were lined up outside in folding chairs in the blistering heat and a young boy collapsed on the concrete and started seizing. Some people quickly tried to get medical aid for the young boy... but there was one woman who got up and started shaking her palms in his direction like she was casting a healing spell on him. This combined with the constant palms up in the air and loud praying really rubbed me the wrong way. Suffice it to say, the next parish I had visited was an SSPX parish which is my current home parish and I have no intention of leaving.

    So, you are certainly under no obligation to kneel in public like the Mohammedans do; and if anything, it would probably be best NOT to due to the weirdness in it.
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    Offline Crayolcold

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #9 on: July 16, 2023, 10:33:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 16, 2023, 10:28:19 PM
    There is a distinction between having fervent piety and weirdness in matters of the Faith. Things that will be seen as ostentatious -- not by people outside the Church (who will see a devotion as small as saying grace as weird) -- but by other Catholics, should probably be avoided. Kneeling in public for the Angelus is certainly not necessary and one could make the case that it would push people outside of the Church further away.

    St. Louis De Montfort his The Secret of the Rosary gives the example of a blue-collar worker who would be completely justified in saying his rosary while working (a far cry from kneeling with your eyes closed / focused on a picture of Our Lord or Our Lady) as long as it is said devoutly.

    I actually have personal experience with this in the form of my reconversion story. When I was beginning to reconvert to the Catholic faith, I visited a Novus Ordo church on Easter Sunday. During the service we were lined up outside in folding chairs in the blistering heat and a young boy collapsed on the concrete and started seizing. Some people quickly tried to get medical aid for the young boy... but there was one woman who got up and started shaking her palms in his direction like she was casting a healing spell on him. This combined with the constant palms up in the air and loud praying really rubbed me the wrong way. Suffice it to say, the next parish I had visited was an SSPX parish which is my current home parish and I have no intention of leaving.

    So, you are certainly under no obligation to kneel in public like the Mohammedans do; and if anything, it would probably be best NOT to due to the weirdness in it.

    The above was me.

    I would like to add that of course there would need to be other circuмstances for the blue-collar worker to say his rosary while working -- such as there not being a possibility for him to make time to say it in a different setting more conducive to prayer. St. Louis De Montfort covers this better than I ever could. Just wanted to clear that up so the welders in here don't think they found a loophole in saying their daily rosary :laugh1:
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #10 on: July 17, 2023, 01:20:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini on July 16, 2023, 09:57:45 PM
    If what you say is correct, why would you pray the angelus and NOT obtain the indulgences for yourself or the souls in purgatory?  Why throw away what the church offers?
    There is nothing scrupulous about it.
    What exactly is an indulgence? I thought it was the remission of temporal guilt.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #11 on: July 17, 2023, 04:27:34 AM »
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    • Kneeling could be dangerous depending upon where you are located.  You shouldn’t suddenly kneel down on a busy sidewalk or pull your car over on a bridge, get and kneel to pray!  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #12 on: July 17, 2023, 05:24:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini on July 16, 2023, 09:57:45 PM
    If what you say is correct, why would you pray the angelus and NOT obtain the indulgences for yourself or the souls in purgatory?  Why throw away what the church offers?
    There is nothing scrupulous about it.

    Incorrect.  It's clear from the way the OP was worded that the anxiety is being caused by scrupulosity, displeasing God through "human respect".  There's a huge difference between a "why not" and somehow displeasing God due to not genuflecting.  Although there's no sign that OP here is motivated by that consideration, over the years, I've run into neurotic Raccoltites who feel an obsessive-compulsive-scrupulous need to obtain every indulgence possible, and will go through as much of the Raccolta as they can every day.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #13 on: July 17, 2023, 05:27:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 16, 2023, 10:28:19 PM
    There is a distinction between having fervent piety and weirdness in matters of the Faith. Things that will be seen as ostentatious -- not by people outside the Church (who will see a devotion as small as saying grace as weird) -- but by other Catholics, should probably be avoided. Kneeling in public for the Angelus is certainly not necessary and one could make the case that it would push people outside of the Church further away.

    St. Louis De Montfort his The Secret of the Rosary gives the example of a blue-collar worker who would be completely justified in saying his rosary while working (a far cry from kneeling with your eyes closed / focused on a picture of Our Lord or Our Lady) as long as it is said devoutly.

    I actually have personal experience with this in the form of my reconversion story. When I was beginning to reconvert to the Catholic faith, I visited a Novus Ordo church on Easter Sunday. During the service we were lined up outside in folding chairs in the blistering heat and a young boy collapsed on the concrete and started seizing. Some people quickly tried to get medical aid for the young boy... but there was one woman who got up and started shaking her palms in his direction like she was casting a healing spell on him. This combined with the constant palms up in the air and loud praying really rubbed me the wrong way. Suffice it to say, the next parish I had visited was an SSPX parish which is my current home parish and I have no intention of leaving.

    So, you are certainly under no obligation to kneel in public like the Mohammedans do; and if anything, it would probably be best NOT to due to the weirdness in it.

    Well stated.  As I mentioned earlier, the only "affect" this type of behavior would have on bystanders is to have them think that you're either crazy or else a Muslim.  I can think of very few scenarios where someone might be edified by the behavior.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Kneeling down for Angelus in public
    « Reply #14 on: July 17, 2023, 05:38:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 17, 2023, 05:24:58 AM
    Incorrect.  It's clear from the way the OP was worded that the anxiety is being caused by scrupulosity, displeasing God through "human respect".  There's a huge difference between a "why not" and somehow displeasing God due to not genuflecting.  Although there's no sign that OP here is motivated by that consideration, over the years, I've run into neurotic Raccoltites who feel an obsessive-compulsive-scrupulous need to obtain every indulgence possible, and will go through as much of the Raccolta as they can every day.
    This ia correct. I am not concerned with the indulgence, just don't want to displease my Lord and Lady.
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