Author Topic: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No (Read 3570 times)

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2017, 08:19:08 PM »

The Most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ, is in "ALL" Sacraments. When you die, God is looking for the "White Robe", God is looking for His Son's Precious Blood. If you are not with this garment, you do not enter.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2017, 08:46:05 PM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 06, 2017, 02:23:21 PM

Quote
Rather than saying that there is no salvation outside of the Church, I prefer to post this dogmatic decree. Anyone that thinks that someone can be saved by their "good" works or intentions should read this carefully. I ask, what good works could even come close to shedding ones blood for Christ? And yet, those pagans, Jews, heretics and schismatics, who shed their blood for Christ can ever be partakers of eternal life.

I disagree. If they shed their blood for Jesus they are NOT Jews, pagans, etc...
dying for Jesus would seem to be the ultimate proof of belief in and adherence to the Words of Christ... I disagree until shown a legitimate reason not to

Then you are disagreeing with the pope who dogmatically declared it. Read what Fr. Wathan said above, you are in denial for some reason.
Here's some things to think about:
1) Nobody comes to Christ unless Christ gives them the grace, gives them everything. Without Me you can do nothing. Every step is given by Christ.
2) No one dies unless God takes them.
What you are painting above is a Christ who gave a Jew or pagan the grace to die for Christ, yet He took the man's life before He sent a person to pour water over his head and say I baptized you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are in the vortex of confusion.
St. Augustine on the Errors of Pelagius said:
If you wish to be a catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that “they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.” There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief. Now these are your words: “We say that some such method as this must be had recourse to in the case of infants who, being predestinated for baptism, are yet, by the failing of this life, hurried away before they are born again in Christ.” Is it then really true that any who have been predestinated to baptism are forestalled before they come to it by the failing of this life? And could God predestinate anything which He either in His foreknowledge saw would not come to pass, or in ignorance knew not that it could not come to pass, either to the frustration of His purpose or the discredit of His foreknowledge? You see how many weighty remarks might be made on this subject; but I am restrained by the fact of having treated on it a little while ago, so that I content myself with this brief and passing admonition.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #12 on:** June 06, 2017, 08:47:50 PM »

St. Augustine on the Errors of Pelagius said:

If you wish to be a catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that “they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.” There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief. Now these are your words: “We say that some such method as this must be had recourse to in the case of infants who, being predestinated for baptism, are yet, by the failing of this life, hurried away before they are born again in Christ.” Is it then really true that any who have been predestinated to baptism are forestalled before they come to it by the failing of this life? And could God predestinate anything which He either in His foreknowledge saw would not come to pass, or in ignorance knew not that it could not come to pass, either to the frustration of His purpose or the discredit of His foreknowledge? You see how many weighty remarks might be made on this subject; but I am restrained by the fact of having treated on it a little while ago, so that I content myself with this brief and passing admonition.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2017, 04:14:45 PM »

Quote from: Anonymous on June 06, 2017, 08:46:05 PM

St. Augustine on the Errors of Pelagius said:
If you wish to be a catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that “they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.” There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief. Now these are your words: “We say that some such method as this must be had recourse to in the case of infants who, being predestinated for baptism, are yet, by the failing of this life, hurried away before they are born again in Christ.” Is it then really true that any who have been predestinated to baptism are forestalled before they come to it by the failing of this life? And could God predestinate anything which He either in His foreknowledge saw would not come to pass, or in ignorance knew not that it could not come to pass, either to the frustration of His purpose or the discredit of His foreknowledge? You see how many weighty remarks might be made on this subject; but I am restrained by the fact of having treated on it a little while ago, so that I content myself with this brief and passing admonition.

i disagree w/ St Augustine. And there is nothing in Church teaching that says you have to accept as irrefutable Truth everything a saint says.
For one thing, why use so many words to say something?
But anyhow, God's will is violated ALL THE TIME... so why would it be so surprising and unheard of, etc... for someone to not be baptized? It is presumed God wants ALL baptized, yet obviously not all are..
no logic in that saying by Augustine that i can see... nope

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2017, 06:17:05 PM »

no reply to that last post

So there is no argument :)

St Augustine is either not right (need to read him, I know) or he hasn't explained himself well

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No (Read 3570 times)

Änσnymσus

Re: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No

Änσnymσus

Re: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No

Last Tradhican

Re: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No

Änσnymσus

Re: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No

Änσnymσus

Re: Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church? Saints say No