Author Topic: Is it wrong to believe this about hell?  (Read 2553 times)

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Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2017, 10:24:39 AM »
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  • Faith is a priceless gift. You need to value it very much.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #31 on: February 24, 2017, 11:14:32 AM »
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  • OP,

    Some posters since you mentioned an increasing disbelief have recommended that you pray for faith.  I'll second that recommendation, and I'll pray for an increase of your faith, BUT:

    It seems that you have a few intellectual premises that are incompatible with faith, because they're incompatible with reason.  Faith is not a state or condition that "takes over" where reason "leaves off."  You've probably heard it said that the faith is reasonable, but do not take this to mean that reason leads us to a gap, and then faith takes over so that we can make a blind leap over that gap into actual religion where reason ceases to function and faith takes over.

    Stop caring about your feelings.  If you went to buy a car, or a home, or something else, you'd (hopefully) have a fairly rigorous intellectual process that guided your decision; you'd want to know a bunch of details in the order of fact and reason to determine whether or not the car or the home was actually good in the objective order.  When it comes to your very life and how you live it, the same sort of deliberation is made all the more important.

    So go back to the reasons that you were Catholic in the first place.  Find those reasons.  Hopefully, you'll find that they were intellectual.  If they weren't, then it's time to make them intellectual.  And by intellectual I don't mean that it's time to go to the library and time for you to become a scholar.  I meant that you need to have actual REASONS, not FEELINGS, that are informing your "religious sense."

    If you don't have that, not only will you certainly not ever be religious, you'll never be much of anything other than a slave to your passions or feelings.  For instance, if you were to marry, what will you do after the honeymoon ends (and it ALWAYS does) and you begin to "feel" ordinary and complacent?  What will you do when the nice feelings of love and excitement and novelty in your spouse begin to wear off?  If you only married them for those feelings in the first place, you're going to end up divorced.  Again and again.  You'll be sixty years old with several spouses behind you and kids from each of them, and you'll have taught each of them to just follow their feelings so don't count on them ever caring about you being in a nursing home because it's an inconvenience to their feelings to have to juggle your feelings, which by that time will be so overwhelming due to you have virtually no social stability, a scattered family, and your mortality sneaking up on you more gradually by the day.

    So go back to the reasons why we're Catholic.  Really basic ones.  Does God exist?  Why?  How does natural reason show us that He exists?  If He does exist, what do we know about Him?  Do we know that he is all powerful, the cause of all things, all knowing, etc.?  If we do, do we know that he has established a Church?  If He has, which one?  What are our obligations to belong to that Church and to live according to God's laws?

    Each and everyone one of those questions can be answered without appealing to feelings.  And really, they MUST be answered without an appeal to feelings.  These are questions, believe it or not, that have already been answered by St. Thomas, and he's answered those questions without ever appealing to the need for feeling, sentiment, or blind faith.  Look to him, and look to others who have shown through reason and natural philosophy certain basic, fundamental truths about religion.  

    Pray, of course.  But you sound like you're beyond prayer, at least in the sense that short of a very strong influx of faith, you simply do not find the fundamental truths of religion AS SUCH to be convincing.  Your problem isn't "just" with the Catholic faith, it seems to be with all religion itself.


    Offline Arsenius

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 01:42:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    I'm actually with OP on this one.  I think that there are a significant number of people in hell whose actually sufferings, apart from the pain of loss, are relatively mild.  This is a permissible opinion based on what was taught by the Council of Florence.


    Totally agree. Heaven and Hell are not for mortal eyes. Too much speculation (on either extreme) is unhealthy and unproductive. It's rather sadistic and pathetic how many traditional Catholics seem to garner a sick fascination/joy with the thought of everybody going to Hell aside from their small circles. Pray and do penance for everyone - especially yourself. "O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven especially those in most need of thine mercy".

    (I'm not the OP)


    Offline Mercyandjustice

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #33 on: February 27, 2017, 06:06:46 PM »
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  • This is the OP, and I want to say thank you all very much for the replies. They really did help. God bless you all. I'm doing better, thank God. Still have some issues, but I pray they will be resolved soon. And thank you for not making fun of me. I was honestly expecting jeers and insults lol...

    Again,  thank you.
    I'm in the middles of a crossroads. The 4 roads are labeled thus: Catholicism, Deism, Agnosticism, and Spiritualism.

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #34 on: March 01, 2017, 12:49:16 AM »
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  • The Fatima Children Are Shown Hell

     In 1917, during World War I and that "hell on earth," the Virgin Mary appeared to three children at Fatima, Portugal on the 13th of the month from May through October. During here appearance on July 13th, 1917, she showed these three young children, ages 7 to 10, a vision of Hell. Lucia, who is still alive today [R.I.P. Feb. 13, 2005], the Blessed Virgin Mary opened her hands, and "rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, and we saw as it were a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. (It must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me.) The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. Terrified and as if to plead for help, we looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so sadly: "You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go. Thus, when you say the rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy." After this vision, the children lived dramatic lives of sacrifice and penance for sinners so that sinners might be converted and saved from the fires of Hell that God had shown them through His Heavenly prophetess.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm


    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #35 on: March 02, 2017, 11:27:24 PM »
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  • Boy Raised from the Dead by St. John Bosco

    A fifteen year old boy in Turin was about to die. He called for Don Bosco, but the saint was not able to make it in time. Another priest heard the boy's confession and the boy died. When Don Bosco returned to Turin, he set out at once to see the boy. When told that the boy was dead, he insisted that it was "just a misunderstanding." After a moment of prayer in the room of the dead child, Don Bosco suddenly cried out: "Charles! Rise!" To the utter amazement of all present, the boy stirred, opened his eyes, and sat up. Seeing Don Bosco, his eyes lit up.

    "Father, I should now be in Hell!" gasped the boy. "Two weeks ago I was with a bad companion who led me into sin and at my last confession, I was afraid to tell everything . . . Oh, I've just come out of a horrible dream! I dreamt I was standing on the edge of a huge furnace surrounded by a horde of devils. They were about to throw me into the flames when a beautiful Lady appeared and stopped them. 'There's still hope for you, Charles,' she told me. 'You have not yet been judged!' At that moment I heard you calling me. Oh, Don Bosco! What a joy to see you again! Will you please hear my confession?"

    After hearing the boy's confession, Don Bosco said to the boy, "Charles, now that the gates of Heaven lie wide open for you, would you rather go there or stay here with us?" The boy looked away for a moment and his eyes grew moist with tears. An expectant hush fell over the room. "Don Bosco", he said at last, "I'd rather go to Heaven." The mourners watched in amazement as Charles leaned back on the pillows, closed his eyes, and settled once more into the stillness of death.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #36 on: March 06, 2017, 02:09:22 AM »
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  • The Old General and The Count

    In Russia shortly before the horrible military campaign between Napoleon and Russia in 1812, two high-ranking military men, one a Count and the Military Governor of Moscow and the other a General, were scoffing over drinks about the existence of God, life after death and Hell. They made a mocking "pledge of honor": if there were a Hell, the first there would come to inform the other of it. A few weeks later, the General departed for the front. One morning, while the Count was lying in bed, the General suddenly appeared before him, pale, with his right hand on his breast, declaring: "What do we do now? There is a Hell and I am there! What do we do now?" He then disappeared. The Count ran to friends, eyes wild, hair on end, and exclaimed what had just happened. Two weeks later, word was received in Moscow that the General had died in battle - on the same day and at the very hour he appeared to the Count. He had kept his word of honor: Hell exists.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Anonymous

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #37 on: March 06, 2017, 10:08:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Is it wrong to believe that, of the 'majority' that doesn't make it to heaven, a good 'chunk' of that population doesn't suffer much, if at all, in hell? Perhaps they go to a place like limbo or limbo itself. Perhaps there is a temporary suffering in hell for some souls and then they are admitted into a non suffering 'part' of hell...


    Yes, you can believe this.  As long as the pain of loss is still somewhat there.


    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #38 on: March 13, 2017, 12:35:18 AM »
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  • The Young Lord and His Mistress

    In London during the winter of 1847-1848, a wealthy young widow in here late 20's suddenly found herself in an illicit relationship with a young Lord. Late one night as she was falling asleep, a glimmer of light started to grow and expand at her door. To her astonishment the door started to slowly open, and there was the young lord. He approached, grabbed here left wrist, and hissed: "There is a Hell." The pain in her wrist was so great she lost consciousness. When she came to, she had a terrible burn into her wrist down to her bone. The carpet also was scorched where his footsteps had come and gone. The next day she learned that the night before, her lord had been found drunk and had died in his servants' arms. She apparently lived the rest of her life with her charred scar as a reminder.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #39 on: March 13, 2017, 11:33:38 PM »
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  • he Young Harlots

    Rome, 1873. A prostitute dies late one night at the local hospital. At that instant, one of her "co-workers" back at the brothel starts screaming, waking up the entire neighborhood and bringing the police. Why? Because her friend at the hospital had suddenly appeared to her in flames, stating: "I am damned!" At daybreak, the poor girl left. Word followed of the death the night before of her friend at the hospital. Word then spread all over Rome of these events. As always, the wise listened, the foolish laughed.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Offline Nadir

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #40 on: March 14, 2017, 04:16:07 AM »
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  •  :roll-laugh1: :fryingpan:

    Matthew is not only the moderator - he's the owner here!

    I'm hanging around for the fireworks.  :heretic:

    :popcorn: :rahrah: :boxer:

    Methinks you've been watching too much Fox TV! :wink:


    Offline Matthew

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #41 on: March 14, 2017, 01:31:41 PM »
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  • Surprise, surprise -- GLSector doesn't belong here!

    Who'da thunk it?

    A lot of people, I'm sure...

    Needless to say, GLSector has been banned for insolence.

    He is a sad example of a person damaged and brainwashed by the modern world, with all its errors. He has a very slim chance of saving his soul. I was hoping to keep him around so he would learn something about Tradition -- I figured it would be for his own good. But I think he's contaminated CathInfo enough. May God have mercy on him.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase! It costs you nothing extra.

    - Matthew

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #42 on: March 14, 2017, 03:41:23 PM »
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  • https://www.olrl.org/doctrine/cry.shtml

    Quote
    This unusual narrative recounts the revelations of a lost soul to a former acquaintance. It is a powerful record of the steps which led a young woman to lose her soul in Hell for all eternity.

    Although it has several times been printed with imprimatur, this in itself does not guarantee the authenticity of the story.

    An imprimatur merely indicates that the subject matter is free from error in faith and morals.

    Is it true?

    Obviously, it cannot be "guaranteed" because the only evidence is that of the girl herself.

    It certainly may be true and its instructional qualities would pertain even if the story itself were not true.

    In the July apparition at Fatima a vision of a Hell of fire was given to the three little children, and significantly, its existence was confirmed by the great public miracle on October 13th.

    Yet Hell is little spoken of in the pulpits. Because of this, the special intervention of Heaven, may, as at Fatima, be necessary to restore this sobering doctrine to its important place in Christian dogma.

    It is well to remember that the Hell spoken of here is the Hell which has a significant place in Catholic doctrine, the Hell described vividly by Christ Himself, the Hell seen in all its livid horror by the children at Fatima on July 13th, 1917.

    The names of persons and places are omitted because of the nature of the story, plus the fact of its recent origin.

    ----------------------------------------------


    Clara and Annette, both single Catholics in their early twenties, worked adjacent to each other as employees of a commercial firm in Germany. Although they were never very close friends, they shared a courteous mutual regard which led to an exchange of ideas and, eventually, of confidences. Clara professed herself openly religious, and felt it her duty to instruct and admonish Annette when the latter appeared excessively casual or superficial in religious matters.

    In due course, Annette married and left the firm. The year was 1937. Clara spent the autumn of that year on holiday at Lake Garda. About the middle of September she received a letter from her mother. "Annette . . . is dead. She was the victim of an auto accident and was buried yesterday at Wald-Friedhof."

    Clara was frightened since she knew her friend was not very religious. Was she prepared to appear before God? Dying suddenly, what had happened to her?

    The next day she attended Mass, received Holy Communion, and prayed fervently for her friend. The following night, at ten minutes after midnight, the vision took place. . .

    "Clara, do not pray for me! I am in hell. If I tell you this and speak at length about it, do not think it is because of our friendship. We here do not love anyone. I do this as under constraint. In truth, I should like to see you to come to this state where I must remain forever."

    "Perhaps that angers you, but here we all think that way. Our wills are hardened in evil - in what you call evil. Even when we do something 'good', as I do now, opening your eyes about hell, it is not because of a good intention."

    "Do you still remember our first meeting four years ago at. . .? You were then 23 and had been there already half a year. Because I was a beginner, you gave me some helpful advice. Then I praised your love of your neighbor. Ridiculous! Your help was mere coquetry. Here we do not acknowledge any good - in anybody."

    "Do you remember what I told you about my youth? Now I am painfully compelled to fill in some of the gaps."

    "According to the plan of my parents, I should not have existed. A misfortune brought about my conception. My two sisters were 14 and 15 when I was born."

    "Would that I had never existed! Would that I could now annihilate myself! Escape these tortures! No pleasure would equal that with which I would abandon my existence, as a garment of ashes which is lost in nothingness. But I must continue to exist as I chose to make myself - as a ruined person."

    "When father and mother, still young, left the country for the city, they had lost touch with the Church and were keeping company with irreligious people. They had met at a dance, and after a year and a half of companionship they 'had' to get married."

    "As a result of the nuptial ceremony, so much holy water remained on them that my mother attended Sunday Mass a couple of times a year. But she never taught me to pray. Instead, she was completely taken up with the daily cares of life, although our situation was not bad."

    "I refer to prayer, Mass, religious instruction, holy water, church with a very strong repugnance. I hate all that, as I hate those who go to church, and in general every human being and everything."

    "From a great many things do we receive torture. Every knowledge received at the hour of death, every remembrance of things lived or known is for us, a piercing flame. In each remembrance, good and bad, we see the way in which was present - the grace we despised or ignored. What a torture is this! We do not eat, we do not sleep, we do not walk. Chained, with howling and gnashing of teeth, we look appalled at our ruined life, hating and suffering. Do you hear? We here drink hatred like water. Above all we hate God. With reluctance do I force myself to make you understand."

    "The blessed in heaven must love God because they see Him without veil, in all His dazzling beauty. That makes their bliss indescribable. We know this and the knowledge makes us furious. Men on earth, who know God from nature and from revelation, can love Him, but they are not compelled to do so. The believer - I say this with gnashing of teeth - who contemplates Christ on the cross, with arms extended, will end by loving Him."

    "But he whom God approaches only in the final storm, as punisher, as just avenger, because he was rejected by Him, such a person cannot but hate Him with all the strength of his wicked will. We died with willful resolve to be separated from God. Do you now understand why hell lasts forever! It is because our wills were fixed for eternity at the moment of death. We had made our final choice. Our obstinacy will never leave us. Under compulsion, I must add that God is merciful even towards us. I affirm many things against my will and must choke the torrent of abuses I should like to vomit out."

    "God was merciful to us by not allowing our wicked wills to exhaust themselves on earth, as we should have been prepared to do. This would have increased our faults and our pains. He caused us to die before our time, as in my case, or had other mitigating circumstances intervene. Now He shows Himself merciful towards us by not compelling a closer approach than that afforded in this remote inferno. Every step bringing us closer to God would cause us a greater pain than that which a step closer to a burning furnace would cause you."

    "You were scared when once, during a walk, I told you that my father, a few days before my first Communion, had told me: 'My little Annette, the main thing is your beautiful white dress, all the rest is just make-believe.' Because of your concern, I was almost ashamed. Now I sneer at it."

    "The important thing is that we were not allowed to receive Communion until the age of 12. By then I was already absorbed in worldly amusements and found it easy to set aside, without scruple, the things of religion. Thus, I attached no great importance to my first Communion. We are furious that many children go to Communion at the age of seven. We do all we can to make people believe that children have insufficient knowledge at that age. They must first commit some mortal sins. Then the white Particle will not do so much damage to our cause as when faith, hope, and charity - oh, these things! - received in Baptism, are still alive in their hearts."

    "Marta K - and you induced me to enter "The Association of the Young Ladies." The games were amusing. As you know, I immediately took a directive part. I liked it. I also like the picnics. I even let myself be induced to go to confession and communion sometimes."

    "Once you warned me, 'Anne, if you do not pray, you go to perdition.' I used to pray very little indeed, and even this unwillingly. You were then only too right. All those who burn in hell did not pray or did not pray enough."

    "Prayer is the first step towards God. And it is the decisive step. Especially prayer to her who is the Mother of Christ, whose name we never pronounce. Devotion to her rescues from the devil numberless souls whom sin would infallibly give to him."

    "I continue my story, consumed with rage and only because I have to. To pray is the easiest thing man can do on earth. And God has tied up the salvation of each one exactly to this very easy thing."

    "To him who prays with perseverance little by little God gives so much light, so much strength, that even the most debased sinner will at the end come back to salvation. During the last years of my life I did not pray any more, so I lacked those graces without which nobody can be saved. Here we no longer receive graces. Moreover, should we receive them we would cynically refuse them. All the fluctuations of earthly existence have ceased in the other life. For years I was living far away from God. For, in the last call of grace I decided against God."

    "I never believed in the influence of the devil. And now I affirm that he has strong influence on the persons who are in the condition in which I was then. Only many prayers, others and mine own, united with sacrifices and penances, could have snatched me from his grip. And even this only little by little. If there are only few externally obsessed, there are very many internally possessed. The devil cannot steal the free will from those who give themselves to his influence. But in punishment of their, so to speak, methodical apostasy from God, He allows the devil to nest in them."

    "I hate the devil too. And yet I am pleased about him, because he tries to ruin all of you; he and his satellites, the fallen with him at the beginning of time. There are millions of them. They roam around the earth, as thick as a swarm of flies, and you do not even notice it. It is not reserved to us damned to tempt you; but to the fallen spirits. In truth every time they drag down here to hell a human soul their own torture is increased. But what does one not do for hatred?"

    "Deep down I was rebelling against God. You did not understand it; you thought me still a Catholic. I wanted, in fact, to be called one; I even used to pay my ecclesiastical dues. Maybe your answers were right sometimes. On me they made no impression, since you must not be right. Because of these counterfeited relationships between the two of us, our separation on the occasion of my marriage was of no consequence to me. Before the wedding I went to confession and communion once more. It was a precept. My husband and I thought alike on this point. Why not comply with this formality? So we complied with this, as with the other formalities."

    "Our married life, in general, was spent in great harmony. We were of the same idea in everything. In this too, that we did not want the burden of children. In truth, my husband would have like to have one; no more, of course. In the end I succeeded in dissuading him even from this desire. Dresses, luxurious furniture, places of entertainment, picnics and trips by car and similar things were more important for me... It was a year of pleasure on earth, the one that passed from my marriage to my sudden death. Internally, of course, I was never happy, although externally at ease. There was always something indeterminate inside that gnawed at me."

    "Unexpectedly I had an inheritance from my Aunt, Lotte. My husband succeeded in increasing his wages to a considerable figure. And so I was able to furnish our new home in an attractive way. Religion did not show its light but from afar off, pale, feeble and uncertain."

    "I used to give free vent to my ill humor about some mediaeval representations of hell in cemeteries or elsewhere, in which the devil is roasting souls in red burning coals, while his companions with long tails drag new victims to him. Clara! One can be mistaken in depicting hell, but never can one exaggerate."

    "I tell you: the fire of which the Bible speaks, does not mean the torment of the conscience. Fire is fire! What He said: 'Away from Me, you accursed one, into eternal fire', is to be understood literally. Literally! How can the spirit be touched by material fire, you will ask. How can your soul suffer on earth when you put your finger on the flame? In fact the soul does not burn; and yet what torture all the individual feels!"

    "Our greatest torture consists in the certain knowledge that we shall never see God. How can this torture us so much, since on earth we are so indifferent? As long as the knife lies on the table, it leaves you cold. You see how keen it is, but you do not feel it. Plunge the knife into the flesh and you will start screaming for pain. Now we feel the loss of God. The lost Catholics suffer more than those of other religions, because they, mostly, received and despised more graces and more light. He who knew more suffers more cruelly than he who knew less. He who sinned out of malice suffers more keenly than he who sinned out of weakness. But nobody suffers more than he deserves. Oh, if that were not true, I should have a motive to hate!"

    "My death happened this way . . ."

    "A week ago - I am speaking according to your reckoning, because according to pain, I could very well say that it is already ten years that I am burning in hell - a week ago, then, my husband and I, on a Sunday went on a picnic, the last one for me. The day was glorious. I felt very well. A sinister sense of pleasure that was with me all the day long, invaded me. When lo, suddenly, during the return, my husband was dazzled by a car that was coming full speed. He lost control."

    "Jesus, used frequently by some people of German language - escaped from my lips with a shivering. Not as a prayer, but as a shout. A lacerating pain took hold of the whole of me. (In comparison with the present only a trifle). Then I lost consciousness. Strange! That morning this thought had come to me in an inexplicable way: 'You could go to Mass once more', It seemed like the last call of Love."

    "Clear and resolute, my 'NO' cut off that train of thought. You will know already what happened after my death. The lot of my husband and that of my mother, what happened to my corpse and the proceedings of my funeral are known to me through some natural knowledge we have here. What happens on earth we know only obscurely. But we know what touches us closely. I see also where you are living."

    "I myself awoke from the darkness suddenly, in the instant of my passing. I saw myself as flooded by a dazzling light. It was in the same place where my dead body was lying. It was like a theater, when suddenly the lights in the hall are put out, the curtains are rent aside and an unexpected scene, horrible illuminated, appears. The scene of my life."

    "My soul showed herself to me as in a mirror; all the graces despised from my youth until my last NO to God. I felt myself like an assassin, to whom his dead victim is shown during his trial at court - Should I repent? Never! - Should I feel ashamed? Never!"

    "However, I could not even stand before the eyes of God, rejected by me. There was only one thing for me: flight! As Cain fled from the dead body of Abel, so my soul rushed from the sight of horror."

    "This was the particular judgment: the invisible Judge said: 'Away from Me'. Then my soul, as a yellow brimstone shadow, fell headlong into the place of eternal torture."

    ------------------------------------------

    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Mercyandjustice

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #43 on: March 19, 2017, 12:23:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Croix de Fer
    https://www.olrl.org/doctrine/cry.shtml

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    This unusual narrative recounts the revelations of a lost soul to a former acquaintance. It is a powerful record of the steps which led a young woman to lose her soul in Hell for all eternity.

    Although it has several times been printed with imprimatur, this in itself does not guarantee the authenticity of the story.

    An imprimatur merely indicates that the subject matter is free from error in faith and morals.

    Is it true?

    Obviously, it cannot be "guaranteed" because the only evidence is that of the girl herself.

    It certainly may be true and its instructional qualities would pertain even if the story itself were not true.

    In the July apparition at Fatima a vision of a Hell of fire was given to the three little children, and significantly, its existence was confirmed by the great public miracle on October 13th.

    Yet Hell is little spoken of in the pulpits. Because of this, the special intervention of Heaven, may, as at Fatima, be necessary to restore this sobering doctrine to its important place in Christian dogma.

    It is well to remember that the Hell spoken of here is the Hell which has a significant place in Catholic doctrine, the Hell described vividly by Christ Himself, the Hell seen in all its livid horror by the children at Fatima on July 13th, 1917.

    The names of persons and places are omitted because of the nature of the story, plus the fact of its recent origin.

    ----------------------------------------------


    Clara and Annette, both single Catholics in their early twenties, worked adjacent to each other as employees of a commercial firm in Germany. Although they were never very close friends, they shared a courteous mutual regard which led to an exchange of ideas and, eventually, of confidences. Clara professed herself openly religious, and felt it her duty to instruct and admonish Annette when the latter appeared excessively casual or superficial in religious matters.

    In due course, Annette married and left the firm. The year was 1937. Clara spent the autumn of that year on holiday at Lake Garda. About the middle of September she received a letter from her mother. "Annette . . . is dead. She was the victim of an auto accident and was buried yesterday at Wald-Friedhof."

    Clara was frightened since she knew her friend was not very religious. Was she prepared to appear before God? Dying suddenly, what had happened to her?

    The next day she attended Mass, received Holy Communion, and prayed fervently for her friend. The following night, at ten minutes after midnight, the vision took place. . .

    "Clara, do not pray for me! I am in hell. If I tell you this and speak at length about it, do not think it is because of our friendship. We here do not love anyone. I do this as under constraint. In truth, I should like to see you to come to this state where I must remain forever."

    "Perhaps that angers you, but here we all think that way. Our wills are hardened in evil - in what you call evil. Even when we do something 'good', as I do now, opening your eyes about hell, it is not because of a good intention."

    "Do you still remember our first meeting four years ago at. . .? You were then 23 and had been there already half a year. Because I was a beginner, you gave me some helpful advice. Then I praised your love of your neighbor. Ridiculous! Your help was mere coquetry. Here we do not acknowledge any good - in anybody."

    "Do you remember what I told you about my youth? Now I am painfully compelled to fill in some of the gaps."

    "According to the plan of my parents, I should not have existed. A misfortune brought about my conception. My two sisters were 14 and 15 when I was born."

    "Would that I had never existed! Would that I could now annihilate myself! Escape these tortures! No pleasure would equal that with which I would abandon my existence, as a garment of ashes which is lost in nothingness. But I must continue to exist as I chose to make myself - as a ruined person."

    "When father and mother, still young, left the country for the city, they had lost touch with the Church and were keeping company with irreligious people. They had met at a dance, and after a year and a half of companionship they 'had' to get married."

    "As a result of the nuptial ceremony, so much holy water remained on them that my mother attended Sunday Mass a couple of times a year. But she never taught me to pray. Instead, she was completely taken up with the daily cares of life, although our situation was not bad."

    "I refer to prayer, Mass, religious instruction, holy water, church with a very strong repugnance. I hate all that, as I hate those who go to church, and in general every human being and everything."

    "From a great many things do we receive torture. Every knowledge received at the hour of death, every remembrance of things lived or known is for us, a piercing flame. In each remembrance, good and bad, we see the way in which was present - the grace we despised or ignored. What a torture is this! We do not eat, we do not sleep, we do not walk. Chained, with howling and gnashing of teeth, we look appalled at our ruined life, hating and suffering. Do you hear? We here drink hatred like water. Above all we hate God. With reluctance do I force myself to make you understand."

    "The blessed in heaven must love God because they see Him without veil, in all His dazzling beauty. That makes their bliss indescribable. We know this and the knowledge makes us furious. Men on earth, who know God from nature and from revelation, can love Him, but they are not compelled to do so. The believer - I say this with gnashing of teeth - who contemplates Christ on the cross, with arms extended, will end by loving Him."

    "But he whom God approaches only in the final storm, as punisher, as just avenger, because he was rejected by Him, such a person cannot but hate Him with all the strength of his wicked will. We died with willful resolve to be separated from God. Do you now understand why hell lasts forever! It is because our wills were fixed for eternity at the moment of death. We had made our final choice. Our obstinacy will never leave us. Under compulsion, I must add that God is merciful even towards us. I affirm many things against my will and must choke the torrent of abuses I should like to vomit out."

    "God was merciful to us by not allowing our wicked wills to exhaust themselves on earth, as we should have been prepared to do. This would have increased our faults and our pains. He caused us to die before our time, as in my case, or had other mitigating circumstances intervene. Now He shows Himself merciful towards us by not compelling a closer approach than that afforded in this remote inferno. Every step bringing us closer to God would cause us a greater pain than that which a step closer to a burning furnace would cause you."

    "You were scared when once, during a walk, I told you that my father, a few days before my first Communion, had told me: 'My little Annette, the main thing is your beautiful white dress, all the rest is just make-believe.' Because of your concern, I was almost ashamed. Now I sneer at it."

    "The important thing is that we were not allowed to receive Communion until the age of 12. By then I was already absorbed in worldly amusements and found it easy to set aside, without scruple, the things of religion. Thus, I attached no great importance to my first Communion. We are furious that many children go to Communion at the age of seven. We do all we can to make people believe that children have insufficient knowledge at that age. They must first commit some mortal sins. Then the white Particle will not do so much damage to our cause as when faith, hope, and charity - oh, these things! - received in Baptism, are still alive in their hearts."

    "Marta K - and you induced me to enter "The Association of the Young Ladies." The games were amusing. As you know, I immediately took a directive part. I liked it. I also like the picnics. I even let myself be induced to go to confession and communion sometimes."

    "Once you warned me, 'Anne, if you do not pray, you go to perdition.' I used to pray very little indeed, and even this unwillingly. You were then only too right. All those who burn in hell did not pray or did not pray enough."

    "Prayer is the first step towards God. And it is the decisive step. Especially prayer to her who is the Mother of Christ, whose name we never pronounce. Devotion to her rescues from the devil numberless souls whom sin would infallibly give to him."

    "I continue my story, consumed with rage and only because I have to. To pray is the easiest thing man can do on earth. And God has tied up the salvation of each one exactly to this very easy thing."

    "To him who prays with perseverance little by little God gives so much light, so much strength, that even the most debased sinner will at the end come back to salvation. During the last years of my life I did not pray any more, so I lacked those graces without which nobody can be saved. Here we no longer receive graces. Moreover, should we receive them we would cynically refuse them. All the fluctuations of earthly existence have ceased in the other life. For years I was living far away from God. For, in the last call of grace I decided against God."

    "I never believed in the influence of the devil. And now I affirm that he has strong influence on the persons who are in the condition in which I was then. Only many prayers, others and mine own, united with sacrifices and penances, could have snatched me from his grip. And even this only little by little. If there are only few externally obsessed, there are very many internally possessed. The devil cannot steal the free will from those who give themselves to his influence. But in punishment of their, so to speak, methodical apostasy from God, He allows the devil to nest in them."

    "I hate the devil too. And yet I am pleased about him, because he tries to ruin all of you; he and his satellites, the fallen with him at the beginning of time. There are millions of them. They roam around the earth, as thick as a swarm of flies, and you do not even notice it. It is not reserved to us damned to tempt you; but to the fallen spirits. In truth every time they drag down here to hell a human soul their own torture is increased. But what does one not do for hatred?"

    "Deep down I was rebelling against God. You did not understand it; you thought me still a Catholic. I wanted, in fact, to be called one; I even used to pay my ecclesiastical dues. Maybe your answers were right sometimes. On me they made no impression, since you must not be right. Because of these counterfeited relationships between the two of us, our separation on the occasion of my marriage was of no consequence to me. Before the wedding I went to confession and communion once more. It was a precept. My husband and I thought alike on this point. Why not comply with this formality? So we complied with this, as with the other formalities."

    "Our married life, in general, was spent in great harmony. We were of the same idea in everything. In this too, that we did not want the burden of children. In truth, my husband would have like to have one; no more, of course. In the end I succeeded in dissuading him even from this desire. Dresses, luxurious furniture, places of entertainment, picnics and trips by car and similar things were more important for me... It was a year of pleasure on earth, the one that passed from my marriage to my sudden death. Internally, of course, I was never happy, although externally at ease. There was always something indeterminate inside that gnawed at me."

    "Unexpectedly I had an inheritance from my Aunt, Lotte. My husband succeeded in increasing his wages to a considerable figure. And so I was able to furnish our new home in an attractive way. Religion did not show its light but from afar off, pale, feeble and uncertain."

    "I used to give free vent to my ill humor about some mediaeval representations of hell in cemeteries or elsewhere, in which the devil is roasting souls in red burning coals, while his companions with long tails drag new victims to him. Clara! One can be mistaken in depicting hell, but never can one exaggerate."

    "I tell you: the fire of which the Bible speaks, does not mean the torment of the conscience. Fire is fire! What He said: 'Away from Me, you accursed one, into eternal fire', is to be understood literally. Literally! How can the spirit be touched by material fire, you will ask. How can your soul suffer on earth when you put your finger on the flame? In fact the soul does not burn; and yet what torture all the individual feels!"

    "Our greatest torture consists in the certain knowledge that we shall never see God. How can this torture us so much, since on earth we are so indifferent? As long as the knife lies on the table, it leaves you cold. You see how keen it is, but you do not feel it. Plunge the knife into the flesh and you will start screaming for pain. Now we feel the loss of God. The lost Catholics suffer more than those of other religions, because they, mostly, received and despised more graces and more light. He who knew more suffers more cruelly than he who knew less. He who sinned out of malice suffers more keenly than he who sinned out of weakness. But nobody suffers more than he deserves. Oh, if that were not true, I should have a motive to hate!"

    "My death happened this way . . ."

    "A week ago - I am speaking according to your reckoning, because according to pain, I could very well say that it is already ten years that I am burning in hell - a week ago, then, my husband and I, on a Sunday went on a picnic, the last one for me. The day was glorious. I felt very well. A sinister sense of pleasure that was with me all the day long, invaded me. When lo, suddenly, during the return, my husband was dazzled by a car that was coming full speed. He lost control."

    "Jesus, used frequently by some people of German language - escaped from my lips with a shivering. Not as a prayer, but as a shout. A lacerating pain took hold of the whole of me. (In comparison with the present only a trifle). Then I lost consciousness. Strange! That morning this thought had come to me in an inexplicable way: 'You could go to Mass once more', It seemed like the last call of Love."

    "Clear and resolute, my 'NO' cut off that train of thought. You will know already what happened after my death. The lot of my husband and that of my mother, what happened to my corpse and the proceedings of my funeral are known to me through some natural knowledge we have here. What happens on earth we know only obscurely. But we know what touches us closely. I see also where you are living."

    "I myself awoke from the darkness suddenly, in the instant of my passing. I saw myself as flooded by a dazzling light. It was in the same place where my dead body was lying. It was like a theater, when suddenly the lights in the hall are put out, the curtains are rent aside and an unexpected scene, horrible illuminated, appears. The scene of my life."

    "My soul showed herself to me as in a mirror; all the graces despised from my youth until my last NO to God. I felt myself like an assassin, to whom his dead victim is shown during his trial at court - Should I repent? Never! - Should I feel ashamed? Never!"

    "However, I could not even stand before the eyes of God, rejected by me. There was only one thing for me: flight! As Cain fled from the dead body of Abel, so my soul rushed from the sight of horror."

    "This was the particular judgment: the invisible Judge said: 'Away from Me'. Then my soul, as a yellow brimstone shadow, fell headlong into the place of eternal torture."

    ------------------------------------------




    That is an intersting story, but I never said that I didn't belive in eternal fire. I believe that, if Catholicism is the only tru religion, only a minority actually goes to eternal torment. Though I'm honestly starting to doubt Catholicism. Not completely though. Please pray for me. The horrid desolation has returned.  I'm about to sleep now though, so hopefully it will be forgotten as I sleep and I wake up not dying inside.  :pray: :pray: :pray:  :cry:
    I'm in the middles of a crossroads. The 4 roads are labeled thus: Catholicism, Deism, Agnosticism, and Spiritualism.

    Offline Mercyandjustice

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    Re: Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #44 on: March 20, 2017, 04:23:01 PM »
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  • This is the OP again. I have found what might be 'solutions' to my problems. The first is the doctrine of apocatastasis. This was something that was believd by many in the early church. Basically it is the belief that, in the end, all things will be reconciled to God.  There will be punishment after death, maybe even a long punishment,  but it will be temporary. Pretty much a like the current view of purgatory. The second 'solution' is the belief in a spirit world. The way that spiritualists believe the after life to be. The afterlife/spirit world is a world similar to ours,  but free of anguish and sorrow. Apparently there are are lower and higher realms, and it is possible to fix yourself even after death,  contrary to the traditional Christian view that only on earth are you able to do good and do bad and that death is the end. The lower realms are for people who were bad on earth and it is possible for then to repent of their wrongs and ascend to higher levels. These options are just so much more consoling to me than the traditional Christian view of eternal fire for 99.89 %of humanity. Such thinking makes me hopless, to be honest. And anxious too. I'm honestly almost starting to doubt that Catholicism,  or even Christianity in general is the only true 'way.' What is it about Catholicism that makes it unique enough to prove that it is the only true faith? I know a lot if miracles have happened in Catholicism. I recently was reading about Andre Besette who was greatly devoted to St.Joseph. Thousands of miraculous healings were performed by him, though he always gave credit to St Josephs intercession. And this was quite recent, 1800s to 1900s. But still, there are miracles and supernatural events everywhere, in all faiths and beliefs. Ive heard of plenty of miraculous things happening in protestant churches. I'm so spiritually lost right now.  I still feel really empty and super sad and anxious,  but believing in everlasting torment for temporal actions would make me sadder! At least with these 2 options, there is ALWAYS hope. The main thing that bothers me,  like I stated above,  is the whole idea that people who suffer in earth will suffer more in the afterlife forever simply because they didn't get baptized or were ignorant of what they needed to know. I know of people who went through anguish and pain for decades until they passed away.  I don't want to believe that are not at rest and at peace now.  And I really doubt they were Christian. At most, they were a 'non practicing.' I feel so so so low right now and when I think of things like this it makes feel numb and sad. Too much empathy maybe? ? I dont care. Another thing that makes me doubt is the amount of Near Death Experiences that exist. Or the accounts of people who have actually died. That all mostly saw and experienced things totally contrary to traditional Christian afterlife view. 
    I'm in the middles of a crossroads. The 4 roads are labeled thus: Catholicism, Deism, Agnosticism, and Spiritualism.

     

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