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Author Topic: Is it wrong to believe this about hell?  (Read 6853 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 08:22:57 AM »
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  • I'm actually with OP on this one.  I think that there are a significant number of people in hell whose actually sufferings, apart from the pain of loss, are relatively mild.  This is a permissible opinion based on what was taught by the Council of Florence.


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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 08:48:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    You don't have to be a poster boy for evil, like Adolf Hitler has become (thanks to the Jєωιѕн media his evil is exaggerated to be the worst in history or some such nonsense). You don't have to be a notorious dictator like Stalin or Pol Pot to go to Hell and suffer great pains there.


    Yes, but hell is NOT monolithic.  Sufferings depend on the DEGREE of sin one committed during one's life.  One of the biggest mistakes about hell is to imagine it as one big caldron of fire in which a Stalin would be roasting in the same intensity of flame as a person who was naturally virtuous during most of their lives but, say, never received the gift of supernatural faith.  Some non-Catholic who lived virtuously from a natural perspective, perhaps even gave their life to save someone else, will NOT be suffering to the same degree as some wicked mass murderer or Satan worshipper.  And I believe that many of those who lived relatively virtuous lives from a natural standpoint suffer very little in hell.  I believe that the actual punishments due to sin can be mitigated or offset somewhat by any virtues that these people may have practiced during their lives (not that these have any supernatural merit of course).

    Quote from: Council of Lyon II
    The souls of those who die in mortal sin, or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, yet to be punished with different punishments. (Denz. 464)


    Quote from: Council of Florence
    But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.” (Sixth Session, 6 July 1439, Pope Eugenius presiding; Denz. 693)


    It is in fact this misunderstanding of hell that influences people to reject the dogma EENS.  So, you see, people recoil at the notion that a virtuous Jєωιѕн grandmother who may have even given her life to save her children would be roasting right next to Joe Stalin.  So they reject EENS and claim that this Jєωιѕн grandmother could be saved.  But if they had a more appropriate view of hell, they wouldn't recoil at this notion.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 12:13:18 PM »
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    ...Yes, but hell is NOT monolithic.


    This post was from me again.  Just forgot to check the "DO NOT Post Anonymously" box.

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 12:09:49 AM »
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  • The Bible and Hell

     "Many souls are falling into Hell.  Pray for poor sinners."  Veronica LuekenThere are over thirty repeated references to the existence of Hell in the Old Testament alone. For instance: "The sorrows of death have compassed me: and the perils of Hell have found me" (Psalms [Douay-Rheims] 114:3). "The Lord Almighty will take revenge on them, in the day of judgment he will visit them. For he will give fire and worms into their flesh, that they may burn, and may feel for ever" (Judith 16:17). "Depart from me, come not near me, because thou art unclean: these shall be smoke in my anger, a fire burning all the day" (Isaiah 65:5). "A fire is kindled in my wrath, and shall burn even to the lowest hell...I will heap evils upon the transgressors of my law, and will spend my arrows among them" (Deut.32:22-23). "The congregation of sinners is like tow heaped together, and the end of them is a flame of fire" (Ecclesiasticus 21:10). "He shall be punished for all he did, and yet shall not be consumed:...he shall burn, and every sorrow shall fall upon him...All darkness is hid in his secret places: a fire that is not kindled shall devour him" (Job 20:17,22,26).

    In the Gospels, Jesus speaks of Hell more than of Heaven. In Matthew, Jesus says "But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment....And whosoever shall say, you fool, shall be in danger of Hell fire" (St. Matt. 5:22). "The Son of Man shall send his angels and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth" (St. Matt. 13:41-42). In Mark, Jesus warns: "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go into Hell, into the unquenchable fire..." (St. Mark 9:43).

    A description of the last judgment in the Book of Revelations clearly makes the point: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works. And Hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the pool of fire" (Rev. 20:12-15).

    Jesus describes in Matthew the last judgment as His separation of the sheep (those who loved God and neighbor) from the goats (those who did not). To the goats, Jesus says His indictment will be: "Depart from Me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ...And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (St. Matt. 25:41,46). Jesus Christ could not have been more clear that each of us, by our choices and conduct, risks eternal punishment after death - Hell.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 12:54:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    I'm actually with OP on this one.  I think that there are a significant number of people in hell whose actually sufferings, apart from the pain of loss, are relatively mild.  This is a permissible opinion based on what was taught by the Council of Florence.


    The pain of loss itself is too horrible to imagine.
     


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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 09:23:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Veronica Lueken


     :facepalm:

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #21 on: February 18, 2017, 04:08:50 AM »
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  • Apparitions of the Damned from Hell

    In Chapter 16 of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus tells a parable on Hell. A rich man who has died and is in Hell pleads with God to send the poor man Lazarus, who has gone to Heaven, back from the dead to warn his five brothers that Hell really exists. God replies: "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead." However, God is so merciful that He has reportedly allowed certain of the damned in Hell to return to earth to witness to others that there truly is a place of eternal suffering - Hell - for those who disobey God and His commandments. Here are two examples of many such occurrences, docuмented in the annals of private revelation.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #22 on: February 18, 2017, 01:56:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Apparitions of the Damned from Hell

    In Chapter 16 of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus tells a parable on Hell. A rich man who has died and is in Hell pleads with God to send the poor man Lazarus, who has gone to Heaven, back from the dead to warn his five brothers that Hell really exists. God replies: "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead." However, God is so merciful that He has reportedly allowed certain of the damned in Hell to return to earth to witness to others that there truly is a place of eternal suffering - Hell - for those who disobey God and His commandments. Here are two examples of many such occurrences, docuмented in the annals of private revelation.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm


    Thank you for that site, which i believe i have gone to but it was long ago

    As to this part, found @ that site:

    In this century alone, the number of persons being chosen by God to witness the reality of Hell is greater then all prior centuries combined

    I believe i am one of those so chosen, but i don't believe i have actually BEEN in Hell, as in completely, just that i have had an experience of Hell b/c i had the misfortune of being around someone who had (my take) sold his/her (won't say) soul to the devil...

    To be in a place where is absolutely no love and only malice and hate... is hell.

    Actually, this has happened 2 or 3 times in my life, and with both genders.. Being around them caused me to "go there" I had to pray a certain way to get out of there


    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #23 on: February 20, 2017, 11:09:15 PM »
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  • Apparitions of the Damned from Hell

    In Chapter 16 of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus tells a parable on Hell. A rich man who has died and is in Hell pleads with God to send the poor man Lazarus, who has gone to Heaven, back from the dead to warn his five brothers that Hell really exists. God replies: "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead." However, God is so merciful that He has reportedly allowed certain of the damned in Hell to return to earth to witness to others that there truly is a place of eternal suffering - Hell - for those who disobey God and His commandments. Here are two examples of many such occurrences, docuмented in the annals of private revelation.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Änσnymσus

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #24 on: February 21, 2017, 11:34:35 PM »
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  • God's 20th Century Warnings of Hell

    In this century alone, the number of persons being chosen by God to witness the reality of Hell is greater then all prior centuries combined. Clearly, as our world moves further away from belief in sin and punishment for sin, God increases His Divine Mercy by granting us more and more confirmations of that reality.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Now is the time of mercy. Twenty minutes after you are dead is twenty minutes too late.

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #25 on: February 21, 2017, 11:38:57 PM »
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  • God's 20th Century Warnings of Hell

    In this century alone, the number of persons being chosen by God to witness the reality of Hell is greater then all prior centuries combined. Clearly, as our world moves further away from belief in sin and punishment for sin, God increases His Divine Mercy by granting us more and more confirmations of that reality.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Now is the time of mercy. Twenty minutes after you are dead is twenty minutes too late.


    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #26 on: February 22, 2017, 11:33:48 PM »
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  • Blessed Faustina Is Shown Hell

    Sister Faustina, the beatified [canonized April 30, 2000] Polish nun was shown Hell in 1936. Here is her account from her Diary (741): "Today, I was led by an angel to the chasms of hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw: the first torture that constitutes hell is the loss of God; the second is perpetual remorse of conscience; the third is that one's condition will never change; (160) the fourth is the fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it-a terrible suffering, since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger; the fifth torture is continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and, despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own; the sixth torture is the constant company of Satan; the seventh torture is the horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies. These are the tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. There are special tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me. Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. (161) I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like. I, Sister Faustina, by the order of God, have visited the abysses of hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence. I cannot speak about it now; but I have received a command from God to leave it in writing. The devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God. What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell. When I came to, I could hardly recover from the fright. How terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O my Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend You by the least sin."

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Offline Lighthouse

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #27 on: February 23, 2017, 12:25:15 AM »
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  • Quote
    Guest said:
    This is the OP, and I wanna say thanks for the replies. Honestly,  I feel like I'm slowly descending into disbelief. Maybe deist or agnostic or some other. I still believe in God, and I still kind of believe in the afterlife, but really I'm just losing faith in Catholicism's view of God and heaven and hell and all that. I mean, what if Christianity is just another religion? Like islam or something. I've always had problems with the whole EENS idea. I read that God wills all men to be saved, yet why doesn't He give a clear and concise path to all men then? He allows so many to remain in ignorance and suffering. Then just damns them to the fire? I know the traditional christian idea that heaven is not a right, it's only a gift, no one deserves it; but still, why does the alternate have to be so terrible?


    Around 8 sentences and almost 10 uses of "I".

    What if you were starting to date someone and the first paragraph out of  your mouth contained this many self references? That person would probably be busy the next time you tried to contact them. It's all about finding the truth, not how you feel about the truth.  Sit back and take a look at the outside sources of truth. Give "I" a rest for awhile.

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #28 on: February 23, 2017, 08:13:08 AM »
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  • Guest unregistered,

    Sister of the Nativity, a reliable mystic, was told that some souls in hell "only" suffered from the absence of God. However they must be rather rare, and we can add that the loss of God is the worst pain.

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #29 on: February 24, 2017, 12:56:14 AM »
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  • Sister Josefa Menendez's Description of Hell

    One of the greatest mystics of this century was Sister Josefa Menendez, who died in 1923 at the age of 33. This young Spanish sister, who had a short religious life of great suffering, experienced revelations throughout much of her life, compiled in The Way Of Divine Love. More than once, she was taken to Hell to witness and feel the suffering first-hand. Sister Josefa was reluctant to write on the subject of Hell, and did so only to conform to Our Lord's wishes. Sister Josefa repeatedly dwelt on what she described as the greatest torment of Hell, namely, the soul's inability to love. One of these damned souls cried out: "This is my torture...that I want to love and cannot; there is nothing left me but hatred and despair. If one of us could so much as make a single act of love...But we cannot, we live on hatred and malevolence..." (March 23, 1922).

    She records, too, the accusations made against themselves by these unhappy souls: "Some yell because of the martyrdom of their hands. Perhaps they were thieves, for they say: 'Where is our loot now?' ...Cursed hands... Others curse their tongues, their eyes...whatever was the occasion of sin... 'Now, O body, you are paying the price of the delights you granted yourself!...and you did it of your own free will...'" (April 2, 1922).

    "I saw several souls fall into Hell, and among them was a child of fifteen, cursing her parents for not having taught her to fear God nor that there was a Hell. Her life had been a short one, she said, but full of sin, for she had given in to all that her body and passions demanded in the way of satisfaction..." (March 22, 1923).

    "My soul fell into abysmal depths, the bottom of which cannot be seen, for it is immense...; Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh. I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns ... not a finger nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, not change posture, for the body seems flattened out and [yet] doubled in two. Sounds of confusion and blasphemy cease not for an instant. A sickening stench asphyxiates and corrupts everything, it is like the burning of putrefied flesh, mingled with tar and sulphur ... a mixture to which nothing on earth can be compared... although these tortures were terrific, they would be bearable if the soul were at peace. But it suffers indescribably... All I have written," she concluded, "is but a shadow of what the soul suffers, for no words can express such dire torment." (September 4, 1922).

    "Today, I saw a vast number of people fall into the fiery pit . . . they seemed to be worldlings and a demon cried vociferously: 'The world is ripe for me . . . I know that the best way to get hold of souls is to rouse their desire for enjoyment . . . Put me first . . . me before the rest . . . no humility for me! but let me enjoy myself . . . This sort of thing assures victory to me . . . and they tumble headlong into hell.' " (October 4, 1923)

    "Tonight I was transported to a place where all was obscure. . . Around me were seven or eight people; I could see them only by the reflections of the fire. They were seated and were talking together. One said: 'We'll have to be very careful not to be found out, for we might easily be discovered.'

    "The devil answered: 'Insinuate yourselves by inducing carelessness in them . . . but keep in the background, so that you are not found out . . . by degrees they will become callous, and you will be able to incline them to evil. Tempt these others to ambition, to self-interest, to acquiring wealth without working, whether it be lawful or not. Excite some to sensuality and love of pleasure. Let vice blind them . . . As to the remainder . . . get in through the heart . . . you know the inclinations of their hearts . . . make them love . . .love passionately . . . work thoroughly . . . take no rest . . . have no pity. Let them cram themselves with food! It will make it all the easier for us . . . Let them get on with their banqueting. Love of pleasure is the door through which you will reach them . . .' " (February 3, 1923).

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm