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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on February 26, 2020, 07:56:04 AM

Title: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 26, 2020, 07:56:04 AM
Is it ok to eat veggie hot dogs/burgers on fast days?
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: SimpleMan on February 26, 2020, 09:54:43 AM
It is in keeping with the letter of the law, so yes, you may.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on February 26, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Of course.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 26, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
Is it ok to eat veggie hot dogs/burgers on fast days?
Yes, it meets the requirements of the law, but not the spirit of the law.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2020, 01:37:56 PM
Vegan meat substitutes are mostly soy and have high estrogen-like compounds.  Would advise against it ... especially if you're a man.  But otherwise quite licit.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 26, 2020, 02:02:10 PM
Vegan meat substitutes are mostly soy and have high estrogen-like compounds.  Would advise against it ... especially if you're a man.  But otherwise quite licit.
Processed store-bought meat substitutes often have a lot of soy. And salt. They also frequently have egg products.
But if you must have meat flavors and can tolerate gluten, you can make a vegetarian "sausage" at home with oatmeal, wheat gluten, and spices typical of sausages. 
An example:
https://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2008/10/pasta-with-peppers-and-sausage.html
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Nadir on February 26, 2020, 02:30:03 PM
Is it ok to eat veggie hot dogs/burgers on fast days?
Your title says vegan and your question says veggie. Not exactly the same thing. Why not just eat veggies? Much better for your health than "dogs".
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 26, 2020, 06:49:46 PM
on fast days we can eat meat, no?
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2020, 07:41:09 PM
on fast days we can eat meat, no?

Yes, unless it's also a day of full abstinence.  I believe that's what OP had in mind.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: SimpleMan on February 26, 2020, 09:19:57 PM
Processed store-bought meat substitutes often have a lot of soy. And salt. They also frequently have egg products.
But if you must have meat flavors and can tolerate gluten, you can make a vegetarian "sausage" at home with oatmeal, wheat gluten, and spices typical of sausages.
An example:
https://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2008/10/pasta-with-peppers-and-sausage.html
The Beyond Meat products do not contain soy.  I had their Beyond Sausage in a burrito at Hardee's (same thing as Carl's Jr) the other day and it is surprisingly good.  I didn't expect much.   I would definitely drive out of my way to have that again.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 27, 2020, 09:33:11 AM
A lot have soy but not all. The salt content is high. There's more people who want to eat healthy and are better informed then in the past when only fish on Friday was a thing.
Immigration has increased the number of people who don't normally (plus eastern catholic/orthodox who are vegan 200 days of the year)eat meat. The stupid fat is bad for you thing also contributes as well as people suffering from cancer who awaken to the ills of processed foods.
The spirit of The fast is I think much more important for Latin catholics because your tradition is all about Lent. You have only the Lent period (obviously ember days) as specific set aside times for penance.
As St Benedict says Lent is a time to repair past negligences 
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Nadir on February 27, 2020, 04:18:52 PM
 (plus eastern catholic/orthodox who are vegan 200 days of the year)
Since when did these people abstain from all animal products - meat, eggs, cheese, milk, yoghurt, honey, etc, etc, for almost 7 months every year?
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 27, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Since when did these people abstain from all animal products - meat, eggs, cheese, milk, yoghurt, honey, etc, etc, for almost 7 months every year?
The traditional fasts in the Eastern churches are:
Lent - 48 days
Phillip's fast - 40 days (from Nov 15 to Dec 24)
Dormition fast - 14 days (Aug 1 to 14)
Apostles fast - 0-6 weeks (from second Monday after Pentecost to Sts. Peter & Paul)
So that's 102-144 days of abstaining from meat or dairy, plus a week of no meat (cheesefare week). 
Traditionally, in the other weeks (30-36 weeks), Wednesday and Friday are also days of abstaining. So that's another 60-72 days.
So in total it would be some 170-200 days without meat or dairy.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Stanley N on February 27, 2020, 05:59:06 PM
Last one was me.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on February 27, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
That's why some advice about spirit of the fast is kinda ignored by easterners

From an orthodox priest is this snippet and kind of shows the different perspective

For Orthodox Christians, Lent and all of our ascetical effort (which includes fasting around half the days of the year, not just Lent, as well as other ascetical practices, none of which include pickingsomething to give up) are about neither the Pietistic emphasis on self-discipline and individual piety and belief nor in the more Lutheran concern of revealing us to be sinners (thus representing the continuum between the Radical and Magisterial Reformations, respectively). There is nothing wrong with either goal, of course, but that is not the point of asceticism
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: ralgul on February 28, 2020, 01:00:08 AM
There's absolutely no animal products in vegan food, so you're not violating Lent by eating vegan hot dogs.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: MaterDominici on February 28, 2020, 06:28:31 PM
Vegan meat substitutes are mostly soy and have high estrogen-like compounds.  Would advise against it ... especially if you're a man.  But otherwise quite licit.
Saw this yesterday. No soy in Beyond Meat.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on March 21, 2020, 12:17:31 PM
 Should Catholics Consume Artificial Meat on Abstinence Days? (https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/should-catholics-consume-artificial-meat-abstinence-days-52721)
November 20, 2019
Source: fsspx.news

For Latin Catholics 14 years or older, abstinence from meat is called for on certain days of the liturgical year: Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and all the Fridays in Lent. Those belonging to one of the autonomous Eastern Catholic churches (such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church) are typically bound by more exacting abstinence standards depending on local rules and customs. Moreover, many traditional Catholics observe the Church’s historic prescription to abstain on all Fridays, Ember Days, and Rogation Days.

So what is a faithful Catholic to do in the age of artificial meat products such as Burger King’s so-called “Impossible Whopper”? Is it permissible to consume these items and still hold to the Church’s laws on abstinence?

The Simple Answer

The simple answer to the question of whether a Catholic may licitly consume artificial meat products on abstinence days is, “Yes.” Soy chorizo, despite being an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, contains as much swine as a bowl full of kale.

Historically, the line between which animals are “meat” (which is forbidden) and which are “seafood” (which is generally permitted) was not always clear. In 17th Century Quebec, for instance, Catholics could consume beaver on Fridays, likely because the animal’s habitat was considered dispositive for classification purposes. That practice would likely be frowned upon today.

The Better Answer

Although no Catholic is, sensu stricto, violating the law of abstinence by eating an Impossible Whopper on Ash Wednesday, it is important to remember the historic relationship between fasting and abstinence and almsgiving. The penitential periods and days of the Church were deemed times when Christians should take the money saved on food and distribute it to the poor.

In the contemporary world, most meat is not considered the delicacy it once was and products such as ham, chicken, and turkey are widely available. Somewhat ironically, however, soy and other plant-based variants of meat products typically cost more than the real deal, leading consumers to expend more money on these substitutes.

Arguably, a Catholic who intentionally seeks these artificial meat products out in the name of adhering to the letter of the law are violating its spirit. It would therefore behoove Catholics to reflect on why they are purchasing an $8.00 box of soy chicken nuggets on Fridays when a can of tuna fish is available for a dollar. Further, with respect to the ascetic dimension of abstinence, that is all but obliterated when meat is replaced by near-identical substitutes.

As always, any Catholic concerned with consuming artificial meat on abstinence days should consult their parish priest or confessor for guidance.  
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: poche on March 29, 2020, 12:02:12 AM
In my opinion I think it is no ok to eat vegan hot dogs or hamburgers on days of abstinence or fast days, 
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Nadir on March 29, 2020, 12:30:36 AM
Artificial "meat" is not meat. It's simple common sense.
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Ladislaus on March 29, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
In my opinion I think it is no ok to eat vegan hot dogs or hamburgers on days of abstinence or fast days,

You're blurring things with the use of the term "OK".  Is it sinful?  No.  Is it ideal?  Perhaps not.  We need to realize that the primary mortification of fasting is in the WILL, in obedience to the Church.  If a person avoids a real Whopper and gets an Impossible Whopper instead, in order to obey the Church, the person is still making a mortification of His will, and it is in the will (rather than in the tastebuds) that all sin resides.  Mortification of the WILL is the mortification of all mortifications.  So, for instance, eating $20/pound salmon might not be ideal either, but no one has every accused someone of sinning by doing so.  As with all things related to the spiritual life, we must always be careful to distinguish between sin (in the will) and an imperfection (lower than the will).
Title: Re: Is it ok to eat vegan hot dogs on fast days?
Post by: Änσnymσus on March 29, 2020, 08:52:07 AM
There's absolutely no animal products in vegan food, so you're not violating Lent by eating vegan hot dogs.
Exactly. Just because vegetable protein is formed in the shape of meat, doesn't make it meat.