Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: St. Alphonsus on the Priesthood  (Read 2156 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
St. Alphonsus on the Priesthood
« on: November 02, 2024, 04:24:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I was reading St. Alphonsus' book "The Dignity and Duties of the Priesthood" and I was aghast at this bizarre passage:


    Quote
    [size=+3]Chapter Two[/size][size=-1]-----------------------------[/size]
     [size=+3]The End of the Priesthood[/size]
    [/color]
    [size=+2]I[/size]
    [size=+2]The Priesthood Appears to the Saints a Formidable Charge[/size]
    ST. CYPRIAN said, that all those that had the true spirit of God were, when compelled to take the order of priesthood, seized with fear and trembling, as if they saw an enormous weight placed on their shoulders, by which they were in danger of being crushed to death. "I see," said St. Cyril of Alexandria, "all the Saints frightened at the sacred ministry, as at an immense charge." St. Epiphanius writes, that he found no one willing to be ordained a priest. A Council held in Carthage ordained that they that were thought worthy, and refused to be ordained, might be compelled to become priests. St. Gregory nαzιanzen says: "No one rejoices when he is ordained priest."
    In his life of St. Cyprian, Paul the Deacon states that when the Saint heard that his bishop intended to ordain him priest, he through humility concealed himself." It is related in the life of St. Fulgentius, that he too, fled away and hid himself. St. Athanasius also, as Sozomen relates, took flight in order to escape the priesthood. St. Ambrose, as he himself attests, resisted for a long time before he consented to be ordained. St. Gregory, even after it was made manifest by miracles that God wished him to be a priest, concealed himself under the garb of a merchant, in order to prevent his ordination. To avoid being ordained, St. Ephrem feigned madness; St. Mark cut off his thumb; St. Ammonius cut off his ears and nose, and because the people insisted on his ordination, he threatened to cut out his tongue, and thus they ceased to molest him. It is known to all, that St. Francis remained a deacon, and refused to ascend to the priesthood, because he learned by revelation, that the soul of a priest should be as pure as the water that was shown to him in a crystal vessel. The Abbot Theodore was only a deacon, but he would not exercise the duties of the Order he had received because during prayer he was shown a pillar of fire, and heard the following words: " If you have a heart as inflamed as this pillar, you may then exercise your Order." The Abbot Motues was a priest, but always refused to offer the holy Mass, saying that he had been compelled to take holy Orders, and that because he felt himself unworthy, he could not celebrate.
    Formerly there were but few priests among the monks, whose lives were so austere; and the monk who aspired to the priesthood was considered to be a proud man. Hence, to try the obedience of one of his monks, St. Basil commanded him to ask in public the Order of priesthood; his compliance was regarded as an act of heroic obedience, because by his obedience in asking to be ordained priest he, as it were, declared himself to be a man filled with the spirit of pride.


    I don't know where to begin. Let's go through in order.


    Quote
    St. Epiphanius writes, that he found no one willing to be ordained a priest.


    This is one of the strangest assertions. St. Epiphanius was the bishop of a diocese in Cyprus. Why would no one in his diocese consent to become a priest? Didn't he encourage men to enter the priesthood? Isn't it his most important duty, as a diocesan bishop, to provide priests to administer the sacraments to his flock? How is he a saint if he failed to do so? And what was he teaching them about the priesthood if no one wanted to be a priest in his diocese? Wouldn't any traditional Catholic bishop today who couldn't convince a single young man to become a priest be considered a miserable failure? Now, we aren't given any context about this horrific statement of St. Epiphanius; I wish I could look up the original context, but it could be that maybe he is lamenting that despite his prayers and entreaties that no one in his diocese agreed to be ordained. But the point here is that St. Alphonsus clearly quotes this with approval, and seems to think it's awesome that no one in this bishop's diocese wanted to be a priest. He is certainly not condemning either St. Epiphanius for forming his flock in such a manner, nor is he condemning the people who refused to enter the ranks of the priesthood. Can anyone explain this?


    Quote
    To avoid being ordained, St. Ephrem feigned madness; St. Mark cut off his thumb; St. Ammonius cut off his ears and nose, and because the people insisted on his ordination, he threatened to cut out his tongue, and thus they ceased to molest him.




    It is a mortal sin to mutilate the body in such a manner as is described here. How are these men canonized? What is even weirder is that St. Alphonsus seems to be saying this is a good thing. If he were not quoting it with approval, it would not be something that would support the point he is making. But certainly St. Alphonsus is not condemning these men for mutilating their bodies in this manner.



    Quote
    The Abbot Motues was a priest, but always refused to offer the holy Mass, saying that he had been compelled to take holy Orders, and that because he felt himself unworthy, he could not celebrate.


    Is this abbot right or wrong? If he's wrong, then why is his bad example being quoted here? If he's right, then why does any priest say Mass? Abbot Motues' claim is that only priests who are worthy to say Mass, should say Mass. But in this same book St. Alphonsus says that even the highest angel in heaven couldn't be worthy to say Mass. So, this means that no one should ever say Mass. But Our Lord told His Apostles to say Mass, and established the Church and the priesthood so that priests would say Mass until the end of time, despite being unworthy to do so. Is there a contradiction here between what Our Lord established and what Abbot Motues is asserting?


    Quote
    Formerly there were but few priests among the monks, whose lives were so austere; and the monk who aspired to the priesthood was considered to be a proud man.


    Okay, so the only people who want to be priests are evil men. Is that what I'm reading? So no good man should become a priest? Even a sanctified monk who lives an austere, fervent life?

    There are a number of people on this forum, regular contributors, who aspired to the priesthood. Can anyone comment on this? And keep in mind that St. Alphonsus isn't some crazy man on the internet, but is a Doctor of the Church, so I'm really baffled here. If anyone actually believed any of this, he would never dream of becoming a priest, and would be an evil man if he wanted to do so.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46672
    • Reputation: +27547/-5115
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Alphonsus on the Priesthood
    « Reply #1 on: November 02, 2024, 04:34:25 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • So, when I was visiting the seminary, I told Bishop Williamson that I was rather intimidated about entering the seminary after having read St. Alphonsus' book.  Bishop Williamson explained that St. Alphonsus' audience tended to be the bad or lukewarm priests, and there's a bit of hyperbole there where he focuses on the ideal but not necessarily on the reality of our human weakness.  Similarly, in other books, St. Alphonsus could have the effect of scaring people out of their wits, by citing stories about how young people just commit one mortal sin out of weakness, and a devil pops out from behind a bush to kill them and take them to hell ... but these stories are meant to scare the lukewarm and presumptuous (who constituted the vast majority, and were his target audience for the books).  Otherwise, if one doesn't take what he wrote with that "grain of salt,", one might get a picture of God as being some ruthless unmerciful tyrant, just LOOKING to send people to Hell.  Then, of course, in other books, St. Alphonsus will emphasize God's Mercy ... so that some of his books are "bad cop" and others "good cop".  Bishop Williamson told me to take his writing with those grains of salt.

    It's just the reality of human nature that most being on their path towards salvation through fear (and self-interest), and so he tries to scare these types to get moving.

    St. Alphonsus isn't distorting or "lying" per se ... but it's more an example of emphasis.  He's absolutely correct that absolutely no human being is worthy of the priesthood ... except there's the pesky reality (and Our Lord's concession to it) that the Church and we faithful need priests.

    At the same time, the priests themselves CAN in fact be tended to think of them too highly, and I'm sure that the devil brings down many of them because they consider themselves big shots, as lay people bow their heads in reverence when greeting them and calling them father.  So St. Alphonsus' books can help put them on guard against this type of temptation.

    Priests have to understand that God did not call them to be priests because they're so great, so holy, so wonderful ... or in anyway deserving of the dignity, since in reality no one is worthy.  God only called them for the sake of the faithful.  They are called to serve and not to BE served.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: St. Alphonsus on the Priesthood
    « Reply #2 on: November 02, 2024, 04:35:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you, Ladislaus. I get your point, but objectively a lot of the statements in this passage are not only bizarre, but contrary to basic Catholic theology in numerous ways, wouldn't you agree? 

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46672
    • Reputation: +27547/-5115
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Alphonsus on the Priesthood
    « Reply #3 on: November 02, 2024, 04:44:34 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you, Ladislaus. I get your point, but objectively a lot of the statements in this passage are not only bizarre, but contrary to basic Catholic theology in numerous ways, wouldn't you agree?

    Well, just look at the passages again.  St. Alphonsus is citing examples, but I don't see anywhere that he approves of the examples he gives.  As often in the cases of saints, God will inspire a certain amount of dramatic representation of some truth, and the Catholic authors are careful to say that God may have inspired a saint to act that way, but it's not meant for emulation, so, for instance, where St. Rose disfigured herself to avoid becoming an occasion of sin.  Certainly this behavior is not mean to be emulated, but God inspired her to act that way to underscore how incredibly important modesty is and how grave a thing to lead others into sin.  Our Lord Himself talked about plucking our your own eye to avoid sin ... but no Catholic confessors would recommend this to a penitent in a real-life scenario.

    If you read some of St. Alphonsus' "stories" (which, IMO, may or may not even be true ... he often prefaces them with "it is related" or "there's a story that ..."), you'd be tempted to despair or salvation.  But then if you read some of his other material, he almost gives his personal guarantee that someone who merely says Three Hail Marys a day (even if with lukewarmness) will not be allowed to perish.