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Author Topic: INTENTION  (Read 398 times)

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Offline LordPhan

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INTENTION
« on: April 15, 2012, 06:35:18 AM »
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    It is said that for a Sacrament to be valid the Minister of the Sacrament must intend to do what the Church does. Is it not true that for all these years the SSPX had grave reservations about Vatican II and hence did not their ministers intend to do what the Church did as per the guidance of the Council of Trent (i.e. prior to Vat.II) ?. What happens to their intention if they fully integrate with the Vatican II Church?

    On a personal note I have been a long time supporter of the SSPX because I did not accept Vatican II. There are many heresies that are associated with this Council and which have been published by various Traditional Catholic groups and writers.


    Intending to do what the Church does, for instance, lets take Baptism. Firstly Intention is presumed until there is REAL doubt. But let's take Baptism. If a Priest comes out and says he is baptising the Child in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost(or Spirit) then objectively he is presumed to be doing what the Church does, however if he then states that he doesn't believe in Original Sin and he was initiating the Child into a Club then objectively he is has manifestly declared he did not have the intention of doing what the Church does and the Baptism is invalid even though the form was correct.

    I suggest you talk to your Priest about this for more detail because I cannot go into explaining validity of the Mass in great detail. I would explain it poorly and might confuse you.


    Offline LordPhan

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    INTENTION
    « Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 06:43:11 AM »
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    Yeah I'd like to know whether the NO masses are valid.


    If said under the original form, valid but illicit. Valid means it happens, Licitness is whether it is allowed or not. Illicit = sin to attend.

    The Church has always taught that the Russian Orthodox(Schismatics and Heretics) have Valid Masses, because they do intend to do what the Church does in saying mass and they have valid apostlic succession(IE: They have real Priests and Bishops) but it is a mortal sin to attend their masses because they are schismatics and heretics.

    On the other hand, the Anglicans do not have Valid Orders, so even if they had the intention of saying the Mass as the Church does, they couldn't. It is invalid and illicit.

    As you well know the Novus Ordo would really be a case by case basis. Some have Valid Orders and some do not(Some of them invoked Luther during ordinations, that makes their orders invalid and that is just one of the stupid things that have or may have occured not to mention mistranslations can possibly invalidate even if the New Rite of Ordination is valid which the SSPX has always said is, so long as it is done the way it is written in Latin which is not always the case)

    I heard that Cardinal Pell just denied Original Sin, if he baptised you, I'd get conditionally baptised. If a Priest has denied the real presence then his masses are invalid. He cannot have the intention of doing what the Church does.

    I hope this makes sense.

    Like I stated in the Previous post, ask your Priest Traditional Priest about this.