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Author Topic: Immodest outfits  (Read 2207 times)

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Offline Godefroy

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Re: Immodest outfits
« Reply #60 on: Today at 04:07:44 AM »
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  • If a shop owner displays his jewellery in the shop window and it gets stolen, who has committed the sin? The thief or the shop owner? We are not Muslims who want to hide women away behind swathes of cloth because some men can’t control themselves, or, more likely just want to exercise control over women who are nothing to do with them. Obviously I’m not advocating wearing miniskirts in Mass or women deliberately walking the sreeet in dance leotard. That’s attention seeking and not appropriate. But dance wear or sports wear for the activity it’s intended for is fine. I repeat we are Catholic, not Muslim.
    If a jeweller leaves the jewels on the table, leaves the shops and the door wide open, it's obviously the thief whose at fault, but the shop owner was pretty stupid, and may be culpable in having provided an occasion for temptation of sin. A bit like pouring out a drink in front of an alcoholic.

    What kind of dancing are we talking about? The costumes in folk dancing are wonderful 

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #61 on: Today at 04:30:56 AM »
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  • If a shop owner displays his jewellery in the shop window and it gets stolen, who has committed the sin? The thief or the shop owner? We are not Muslims who want to hide women away behind swathes of cloth because some men can’t control themselves, or, more likely just want to exercise control over women who are nothing to do with them. Obviously I’m not advocating wearing miniskirts in Mass or women deliberately walking the sreeet in dance leotard. That’s attention seeking and not appropriate. But dance wear or sports wear for the activity it’s intended for is fine. I repeat we are Catholic, not Muslim.
    Your comparison is contrary to Catholic doctrine. Sins of impurity are not to be fought with like other vices, we are supposed run from them. A woman needs to cover up, impurity is not like other sins.


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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #62 on: Today at 04:32:18 AM »
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  • If a shop owner displays his jewellery in the shop window and it gets stolen, who has committed the sin? The thief or the shop owner? We are not Muslims who want to hide women away behind swathes of cloth because some men can’t control themselves, or, more likely just want to exercise control over women who are nothing to do with them. Obviously I’m not advocating wearing miniskirts in Mass or women deliberately walking the sreeet in dance leotard. That’s attention seeking and not appropriate. But dance wear or sports wear for the activity it’s intended for is fine. I repeat we are Catholic, not Muslim.
    Catholic saints, doctors, theologians and Popes disagree with you. A woman shouldn't even be playing sports in the first place let alone wearing immodest uniforms. You come off as a modernist.

    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #63 on: Today at 04:56:21 AM »
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  • If a shop owner displays his jewellery in the shop window and it gets stolen, who has committed the sin? The thief or the shop owner? We are not Muslims who want to hide women away behind swathes of cloth because some men can’t control themselves, or, more likely just want to exercise control over women who are nothing to do with them. Obviously I’m not advocating wearing miniskirts in Mass or women deliberately walking the sreeet in dance leotard. That’s attention seeking and not appropriate. But dance wear or sports wear for the activity it’s intended for is fine. I repeat we are Catholic, not Muslim.
    Do you understand that experiencing an occasion of sin in this scenario (women dresses immodestly at mass)is not a sin?

    Do you understand that the causing of an occasion of sin is, in this case, mortal sin?

    Do you understand that a woman can go to mass dressed immodestly, providing an occasion (possibly near occasion) of sin to the men there, and leave with mortal sin on her soul for having done so without having caused a single man to actually sin? I think you have said that you have daughters..It's important you understand this
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #64 on: Today at 05:24:57 AM »
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  • Very simply, we are supposed to dress for God with the best we have. He sees and notices each and every one of us from the moment we walk into His presence -  and we see Him face to face in the Host. He definitely sees how we dress to come to see Him and He demands not only reverence in His presence, He also demands what goes with reverence, which is modesty, immodesty goes with irreverence - and God hates it.  

    The whole idea of ushers acting like the SS is altogether absurd. Ushers, among their other duties, are supposed to watch over the sanctity of the place, hopefully in a charitable manner that befits the occasion, but they too will answer to God for letting in those dressed immodestly, for not doing their duty if they do nothing.

    There will come a time when each and every one of us will stand before Him naked (and accused), but that time is not now and definitely not at Mass. 

    Lack of reverence in the conciliar church has no place at the Holy Sacrifice, snip from the below video....
    "....God told Moses: "Come not nigh hither, put off the shoes from thy feet: for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground".

    Now this passage tells me, and I'm sure it tells you, that there is a need for reverence toward almighty God in His precinct. He gave an explicit instruction here to Moses, to do something to indicate that reverence was called for, to assume a particular demeanor, to remove his shoes, and to be aware by his gesture and by his demeanor, that he could not act in God's presence the way he acted in other places and in other circuмstances..." 



    Offline Justinian

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #65 on: Today at 05:56:57 AM »
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  • Do you understand that experiencing an occasion of sin in this scenario (women dresses immodestly at mass)is not a sin?

    Do you understand that the causing of an occasion of sin is, in this case, mortal sin?

    Do you understand that a woman can go to mass dressed immodestly, providing an occasion (possibly near occasion) of sin to the men there, and leave with mortal sin on her soul for having done so without having caused a single man to actually sin? I think you have said that you have daughters..It's important you understand this
    A man is far more likely to experience occasions of sin walking down the street in any city than he is attending Mass. Porn is even popping up on Facebook, insta, X, YouTube, children are seeing it often by accident. Now this is concerning, but rather than judging some 16 year old girl who wears a skirt slightly tight or above the knee at your church, men in general must learn to guard their eyes and learn to deal with the fact there are temptations everywhere. I’m not saying it’s right for women to turn up to church in tight revealing clothes… of course it isn’t. But you are responsible for YOUR own soul, not anyone else’s apart from your children perhaps. So concentrate on that. Whatever judgement you mete out will be meted out to you.

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #66 on: Today at 06:03:12 AM »
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  • A man is far more likely to experience occasions of sin walking down the street in any city than he is attending Mass. Porn is even popping up on Facebook, insta, X, YouTube, children are seeing it often by accident. Now this is concerning, but rather than judging some 16 year old girl who wears a skirt slightly tight or above the knee at your church, men in general must learn to guard their eyes and learn to deal with the fact there are temptations everywhere. I’m not saying it’s right for women to turn up to church in tight revealing clothes… of course it isn’t. But you are responsible for YOUR own soul, not anyone else’s apart from your children perhaps. So concentrate on that. Whatever judgement you mete out will be meted out to you.
    Don't you know that less is more? A cute teenage girl that's wearing immodest clothes is more dangerous than a naked 25 yr old woman. Because the first triggers the mind to make men excited to see what there is hidden, a woman who is already naked does not give off this factor. Another thing, just because we see immodestly more than ever in today's world just not justify you or others to let your children dress immodest and certainly not at Church where God is found in His Flesh, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

    We do try to guard the eyes but when a woman is dressed immodestly it makes it so much harder to look away, and so much easier to look more and again and again. Why attempt to justify setting a stumbling block before your neighbour? We are infact responsible to not give scandal to others and to be a good example not a bad one.

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #67 on: Today at 06:06:02 AM »
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  • Haha, thanks for the responses everyone. I was tempted to tell the girls/her parents myself but I decided asking for prudent counsel on CI was a better option. If the girls keep dressing immodestly I will mention it to the priest. They dont always dress like this but if a woman's clothing is too tight it's a problem.
    If this girl’s outfit is causing occasion of sin for you then avoid sitting anywhere near her in church. Avoid looking at her if you go to the tea room after church. Perhaps mention to the priest but do not approach her or her family. This would be extremely inappropriate as you’re male and just give you a reputation as creepy. 

    Can I ask, do women you see in the street have a similar effect? If so, it’s something you’re going to have to pray about and deal with yourself, in consultation with a priest. I did know one priest who recommended cold showers for certain men as a penance!! I was told this by a few people… not sure if they were making it up…


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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #68 on: Today at 06:32:00 AM »
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  • If this girl’s outfit is causing occasion of sin for you then avoid sitting anywhere near her in church. Avoid looking at her if you go to the tea room after church. Perhaps mention to the priest but do not approach her or her family. This would be extremely inappropriate as you’re male and just give you a reputation as creepy.

    Can I ask, do women you see in the street have a similar effect? If so, it’s something you’re going to have to pray about and deal with yourself, in consultation with a priest. I did know one priest who recommended cold showers for certain men as a penance!! I was told this by a few people… not sure if they were making it up…
    It's more so that it's a sin to dress immodesty and it can be a bad example to the other ladies and it can lead men to impure thoughts. Sometimes I am tempted sometimes I am not.

    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #69 on: Today at 07:10:00 AM »
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  • A man is far more likely to experience occasions of sin walking down the street in any city than he is attending Mass.
    That's unfortunately to be expected. What should never be expected is it happening at the most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is unacceptable. This is apples to oranges. The holy saints would flee from some chapels if they were on earth..some would probably drag the offenders out by the ear

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    Porn is even popping up on Facebook, insta, X, YouTube, children are seeing it often by accident. Now this is concerning, but rather than judging some 16 year old girl who wears a skirt slightly tight or above the knee at your church

    Who is judging anyone's soul? What can be judged is immodest dress, that is an outward action that anyone can see...especially at Mass when Our Lord's Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are truly present on the altar. At that moment it is the Holiest place on earth. I really do not think you grasp the seriousness of the situation here.

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    men in general must learn to guard their eyes and learn to deal with the fact there are temptations everywhere.
    Again, this is 'victim blaming', as they say. Those who's eyes and souls are assaulted with temptations to mortally sin are not to blame..

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    I’m not saying it’s right for women to turn up to church in tight revealing clothes… of course it isn’t.
    Yet you cannot just say that. You are compelled to bring up the hypothetical of a man giving into the occasion of sin, when it's neither here nor there. There's no way for you to know that, but anyone can see immodest dress at Mass

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    But you are responsible for YOUR own soul, not anyone else’s apart from your children perhaps. So concentrate on that.
    Whatever judgement you mete out will be meted out to you.

    Again, we are talking about immodest dress causing an occasion to sin against the sixth and ninth commandments at Mass. We're not talking about whether any particular man commits those sins, the occasion of sin is present regardless. That is the topic.


    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline jen51

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #70 on: Today at 07:37:50 AM »
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  • But dance wear or sports wear for the activity it’s intended for is fine. I repeat we are Catholic, not Muslim.
    What kind of dance and sportswear clothing are you thinking of?
    I find it troubling how men and women’s attire in sports are so vastly different. Men are allowed to cover up more and women must wear skin tight, grossly revealing outfits just to fit in in the sports and performance world. This alone should give us pause, to understand that sports have become a very worldly endeavor.  We should not take our cues on what is good and proper from worldy activities. Not to mention league, competitive sports do not nurture the feminine sensibilities.

    Not allowing skin tight excercize pants or leotards for dancing isn’t Muslim. Muslims exploit women, Catholics protect and revere them. The dignity of women is placed very high in the Church, just look at the place of the Blessed Mother. A well dressed woman gathers in quite naturally the benefits of respect, dignity and chivalry. Why would we give that up for yoga pants and tutus and leotards?

    Just a few things to think about!



    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27


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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #71 on: Today at 07:52:28 AM »
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  • What kind of dance and sportswear clothing are you thinking of?
    I find it troubling how men and women’s attire in sports are so vastly different. Men are allowed to cover up more and women must wear skin tight, grossly revealing outfits just to fit in in the sports and performance world. This alone should give us pause, to understand that sports have become a very worldly endeavor.  We should not take our cues on what is good and proper from worldy activities. Not to mention league, competitive sports do not nurture the feminine sensibilities.

    Not allowing skin tight excercize pants or leotards for dancing isn’t Muslim. Muslims exploit women, Catholics protect and revere them. The dignity of women is placed very high in the Church, just look at the place of the Blessed Mother. A well dressed woman gathers in quite naturally the benefits of respect, dignity and chivalry. Why would we give that up for yoga pants and tutus and leotards?

    Just a few things to think about!
    No one actually cares about women's sports, people are only watching it to have a look at the women, the simple reality is that women have nowhere near the athleticism of men. Watching women's sports for the sport is actually embarrassing because their performance is just bad, even teenage boys have more skill and coordination.

    Offline jen51

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #72 on: Today at 07:53:52 AM »
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  • Another thought. As women it behooves us to think of modesty as noble, not restrictive. In the modern world, this is such a big challenge for women!! Everywhere we see women dressing as they do and sometimes the prevailing thoughts in our heads might be wondering why we have to stick out all the time or why can’t we dress comfortably. A woman’s nature is to comply or fall in line. Going against the grain is particularly hard for us. This is why it’s best to not put ourselves in positions where we might falter against the pressure. We must fall in line with Gods expectations and permissions, not the modern worlds. This is hard, but what peace and joy it brings once one has decided on it and practices it as habit! Blessed is the woman who has a father or husband who sets the expectation. He is her shield, not her oppressor. 
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline jen51

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #73 on: Today at 07:55:21 AM »
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  • No one actually cares about women's sports, people are only watching it to have a look at the women, the simple reality is that women have nowhere near the athleticism of men. Watching women's sports for the sport is actually embarrassing because their performance is just bad, even teenage boys have more skill and coordination.
    I agree. It should not be a thing. 
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Justinian

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    Re: Immodest outfits
    « Reply #74 on: Today at 08:13:27 AM »
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  • What kind of dance and sportswear clothing are you thinking of?
    I find it troubling how men and women’s attire in sports are so vastly different. Men are allowed to cover up more and women must wear skin tight, grossly revealing outfits just to fit in in the sports and performance world. This alone should give us pause, to understand that sports have become a very worldly endeavor.  We should not take our cues on what is good and proper from worldy activities. Not to mention league, competitive sports do not nurture the feminine sensibilities.

    Not allowing skin tight excercize pants or leotards for dancing isn’t Muslim. Muslims exploit women, Catholics protect and revere them. The dignity of women is placed very high in the Church, just look at the place of the Blessed Mother. A well dressed woman gathers in quite naturally the benefits of respect, dignity and chivalry. Why would we give that up for yoga pants and tutus and leotards?

    Just a few things to think about!
    Women are often good gymnasts and dancers and that should be encouraged. The arts and entertainment is important in society. Beauty, art, literature, dance, theatre….We are not Muslim or puritanical Protestants. God designed the human body and women should not have to cover themselves in swathes of cloth to hide it. But actively displaying themselves and acting like a sex object as many women do nowadays is also wrong. It’s about balance. 

    If women want to play football or cricket for enjoyment good for them but agree it’s not entertaining to watch and the men are far better.