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Author Topic: If I lie to a priest...  (Read 1178 times)

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Änσnymσus

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If I lie to a priest...
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:17:32 AM »
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  • If a priest approaches me and asks if I am known by a certain name on internet forums- with the intention of threatening me or throwing me out, and I tell him that he must be mistaken-can I then be forgiven by a pro-resistance priest for the lie? Would he give me absolution or make me go confess to the first one?  Cowardly-definitely. But how bad of a sin would it be?


    Offline ggreg

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 12:29:53 AM »
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  • Why not stand by your words or retract them?


    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 12:41:45 AM »
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  • Because if I get thrown out my whole family would probably not be able to attend either. Their salvation may depend on the sacraments. There is nowhere else to attend within a reasonable distance. I have not posted anything untrue or calumny. I don't think it is a sin to disagree with the things that have been done. I however do not think the priest would want to hear my side.

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 12:56:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    If a priest approaches me and asks if I am known by a certain name on internet forums- with the intention of threatening me or throwing me out, and I tell him that he must be mistaken-can I then be forgiven by a pro-resistance priest for the lie? Would he give me absolution or make me go confess to the first one?  Cowardly-definitely. But how bad of a sin would it be?


    The question is: what right does this cleric have of knowing your affairs? What does he make himself to be, that may account himself as the arbiter of your activities as if he may arrogate to himself such binding authority, when he himself lacks the requisite mission and jurisdiction to inquire into such affairs? Is he not exceeding his competence in thus acting?

    Not giving information to those who have no right to the same is not a lie, especially if there is peril that giving such information would be detrimental to the tranquility and welfare of your household.

    Indeed, the cleric in question is mistaken, for he mistakes himself as someone who has a right to know such information, and he mistakes the entire predicament of the SSPX in that he is following the Sacramental terrorism that Opus Fellay is using to bully the faithful.

    I do not think there culpability in this predicament as described: at worst, it may have been a venial sin, mitigated by circuмstantial factors as it was done in a moment of frustration and confusion; or it may not have been a sin at all.

    This is just my point of view.

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 01:00:06 AM »
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  • Carry a tape recorder in your pocket when he asks you tht question.


    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 01:04:55 AM »
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  • Refusing communion or kicking out good and holy people are sins against God.
    Any priest who refuses communion or kicks out holy people will eventually have to answer to God when he dies.


    Yes, give all love and obedience to God; not Bishop Fellay or Father Rostand

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 01:22:51 AM »
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  • But is it a worse sin than lying to anyone else, because he is a priest? And also could I receive absolution?  Or would it be unabsolvable because of premeditation?
    Or would a pro-resistance priest tell me I had to go confess my lie to him anyway?I am pretty sure he will be coming my way soon. In one way I feel like a hypocrite because others have spoken out regardless of punishment. But on the other hand, I feel like I should not put my head (and my family's) on the chopping block just so they can use it to terrorize others into silence.

    Offline ggreg

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 01:57:29 AM »
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  • The SSPX has made something of a habit of it over the years.  The very same camp that are being pushed out now were pushing out those they disagreed with 20 years ago when they had the power to do so.

    There are some on this forum who have been pushed out of their parishes.

    Politics is a dirty business.


    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 02:03:25 AM »
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  •   Lying to anyone is never good.  

    I say go to confession and pray before the priest asks you that question.

    I should think that you have a right to not answer the question and politely excuse yourself and or   respond to his question with a question like "Father, what is your pseudo name on the internet? and which forums do you frequent."

    I do like the suggestion of carrying a tape recorder in your pocket so you can tape the conversation.  

    Also, it would be the sin of the priest for even asking because "provoking and instigating is accomplice to sin of the heirarchy."

    Also, retaliation, vindictiveness and revenge on innocent family members would surely be the work of the devil; not a Catholic priest.


     

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 02:08:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    But is it a worse sin than lying to anyone else, because he is a priest? And also could I receive absolution?  Or would it be unabsolvable because of premeditation?
    Or would a pro-resistance priest tell me I had to go confess my lie to him anyway?I am pretty sure he will be coming my way soon. In one way I feel like a hypocrite because others have spoken out regardless of punishment. But on the other hand, I feel like I should not put my head (and my family's) on the chopping block just so they can use it to terrorize others into silence.


    Why would another Priest demand that you confess to another Priest? Neither of them have jurisdiction save that which is supplied to them in the very act that is demanded by the spiritual welfare of the faithful. The absolution of one is as good as the other.

    I think you are confusing reparation with absolution: the Priest may oblige you to clarify the matter with the other Priest as part of your penance, but I do not see why he should. The other Priest has no right to know the information for which he asked, and you have no obligation to have given him any response.

    Furthermore, no sin is "unabsolvable" save those sins for which one does not have contrition and firm resolution to avoid: in this situation it is a venial sin or a defect at worst, and something I don't think you do habitually. Your scruples are proof enough that you are contrite enough regarding any culpability that may have been imputed to you.

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 02:26:03 AM »
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    But is it a worse sin than lying to anyone else, because he is a priest?


    Yes, because of the ontological dignity of the sacred Priesthood, but practically speaking in our days...

    ...not really, because in the eyes of Canon Law, all traditional Priests and Bishops are laymen, for they have no mission, office or jurisdiction, and they are therefore not part of the hierarchy; and this is exactly the juridical position of the layman.

    The only difference between the clergy and laity in the traditional realm lies in the power of Orders which Priestly Ordination or Episcopal Consecration bestows upon a man: such power of Orders does not carry with it power of jurisdiction since the Ordinations and Consecrations done by the acephalous and vagrant Bishops are themselves a violation of Canon Law. They do not commit mortal sin because the good of the faithful demand such Ordinations and Consecrations, but validity does not assure jurisdiction: for even the Oriental schismatics have valid Orders, but they cannot form part of the hierarchy of the Church since they do not belong thereto by reason of schism and heresy.

    The traditional clergy who are really Catholic (not sacramental terrorists or sectarians) are part of the Church but not part of the hierarchy. They do not have any authority, much less the faculties to impose punitive or coercive judicial decisions.

    So, the position of a traditional Priest is that of the layman, Canonically speaking.

    Reverence is to paid to the Priest is the Priest shows himself worthy thereof by his paternal solicitude, Apostolic zeal, probity of life, personal sanctity, competence in matters of sacred doctrine and pastoral theology, &c. This is because there is nothing that can assure us that such or such a Priest is competent enough to de facto demand our reverence and credibility.

    Even then, the relationship between the Priest and layman is more like unto a fiduciary contract based on charity and humility, rather than a subordination based on obedience and justice. You are under no obligation to follow them blindly, nor to adhere to them exclusively to the prejudice of other clerics.

    You pay heed to the Father Confessor to whom you entrust your soul not because he has authority outside the confessional, but insofar as he is your spiritual director whose counsel has more weight than that of laymen or other Priests.

    Go to a Priest you trust regarding your scruples upon this matter, and pay heed to him because you trust him and he knows you and your situation.


    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 03:02:22 AM »
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  • So a priest who is a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ , pedophile, liar is still a priest within novus ordo.  ONce a priest always a priest was an excuse to cover sɛҳuąƖ abuse and lies.  


    And yet a good and holy priest or bishop who is keeps his vows to God, prays, helps the poor and lives and dies in poverty is just a lay person???

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 03:08:05 AM »
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  • This is how I feel.  How dare a "priest" ask a innocnet person if they are internet forums and ask them what their name is when the majority of the novus ordo clergy are on the internet trolling for little boys and men.  

    What is wrong with you people?

    Since when is defending God, Our Blessed Mother and the Church a sin against God?


    And Jesus is about the Truth.



     

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 03:19:14 AM »
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  • The SSPX is under Rome and the Popes and sspx obeys the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, there fore giving love, honor and obedience to God.
    Arbishop Lefebvre was a Roman Catholic priest under Rome.  The SSPx was created under the Pope.  

    It was liberal Rome who excommunicated the sspx for "disobedience" for concescrating Bishop Fellay and three others to be bishops  while at the same time Rome was protecting and covering up, lying to protect perverts who were raping, molesting little children, young people in youth groups, gang raping and sɛҳuąƖly harrassing young seminarians.  

     :fryingpan:

       

     

    Änσnymσus

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    If I lie to a priest...
    « Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 03:28:32 AM »
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  • There is going to be a lot of priests, bishops, cardinals and nuns burning and rotting in Hell.  

    The novus ordo remove Heaven and Hell from the act of contrition...