Author Topic: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch? (Read 1751 times)

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2021, 07:33:30 PM »

The Indult is part of the Novus Ordo religion. So yes, they have left the Catholic Church.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2021, 08:03:28 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 10, 2021, 07:33:30 PM

The Indult is part of the Novus Ordo religion. So yes, they have left the Catholic Church.

Agree.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #17 on:** May 10, 2021, 08:45:14 PM »

The Novus Ordo sect has not been juridically separated from the Church, therefore, those who, in good faith believe it is the Catholic Church, are not presumed to be outside the Church.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #18 on:** May 10, 2021, 09:12:50 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 10, 2021, 08:45:14 PM

The Novus Ordo sect has not been juridically separated from the Church, therefore, those who, in good faith believe it is the Catholic Church, are not presumed to be outside the Church.

Sure, the individuals who are ignorant of the distinction between the Novus Ordo and the Catholic Church would not be culpable. But, the fact still remains that they are leaving the structures of the Catholic Church to attending a non-Catholic worship.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2021, 10:52:10 PM »

The poll is set up with the presumption that the SSPX is the Catholic Church?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2021, 10:55:46 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 10, 2021, 10:52:10 PM

The poll is set up with the presumption that the SSPX is the Catholic Church?

Matthew · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2021, 04:13:50 AM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 10, 2021, 10:52:10 PM

The poll is set up with the presumption that the SSPX is the Catholic Church?

Is that how you interpret it?

The SSPX is part of the Catholic Church (for now). The Conciliar Church is more debatable. The Indult is part of that Conciliar milieu...

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2021, 07:25:01 PM »

One of the FSSPX priest from Europe in a recent sermon was very critical of churches where both NO and TLM Masses coexist - I guess this is what happens where indult used to take place and now some NO priests slowly transition. He almost directly said that it is better for the soul to attend NO rather than mix them up.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2021, 08:27:25 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 11, 2021, 07:25:01 PM

He almost directly said that it is better for the soul to attend NO rather than mix them up.

That's ridiculous. How would it be better for the soul to adhere to a blatantly false rite, than, at minimum, a cosplay of the true Mass? At least with the false Indult rite you're getting exposed to the accidentals of the True Mass, even though it lacks its substance. With the Novus Ordo Missae you get not only something visibly repugnant, but also lacking any substance of the Faith whatsoever.

andy · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2021, 12:06:07 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 11, 2021, 08:27:25 PM

That's ridiculous. How would it be better for the soul to adhere to a blatantly false rite, than, at minimum, a cosplay of the true Mass? At least with the false Indult rite you're getting exposed to the accidentals of the True Mass, even though it lacks its substance. With the Novus Ordo Missae you get not only something visibly repugnant, but also lacking any substance of the Faith whatsoever.

One can argue that blurring the difference between NO and TLM and normalizing their coexistence in the same church is a way worse evil. As it would be to faithful to chose. Fr. Hesse warned against indult as well.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2021, 01:53:48 PM »

Quote from: andy on May 12, 2021, 12:06:07 PM

One can argue that blurring the difference between NO and TLM and normalizing their coexistence in the same church is a way worse evil. As it would be to faithful to chose. Fr. Hesse warned against indult as well.

Fr. Hesse recommended against actually communing in the Indult if it was uncertain whether the hosts were consecrated in the NO or the TLM, but he actually said you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to. He said you should go to the SSPX at least once a year to receive communion, and he said FSSP/indult sermons might be some small percentage unorthodox (which isn't a ringing endorsement) whereas SSPX sermons were reliable.

The idea that its leaving the Catholic Church to go to the Indult makes no sense and I don't see how someone who believes that isn't essentially making *themselves* to be the Pope.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2021, 02:12:28 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on May 12, 2021, 01:53:48 PM

Fr. Hesse recommended against actually communing in the Indult if it was uncertain whether the hosts were consecrated in the NO or the TLM, but he actually said you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to. He said you should go to the SSPX at least once a year to receive communion, and he said FSSP/indult sermons might be some small percentage unorthodox (which isn't a ringing endorsement) whereas SSPX sermons were reliable.

That was at least 15 years ago. The SSPX and the Indult certainly haven't gotten any better in that time.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2021, 02:27:25 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 12, 2021, 02:12:28 PM

That was at least 15 years ago. The SSPX and the Indult certainly haven't gotten any better in that time.

Sure, I was just responding based on what was said

andy · « **Reply #28 on:** May 13, 2021, 02:33:24 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on May 12, 2021, 01:53:48 PM

Fr. Hesse recommended against actually communing in the Indult if it was uncertain whether the hosts were consecrated in the NO or the TLM, but he actually said you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to. He said you should go to the SSPX at least once a year to receive communion, and he said FSSP/indult sermons might be some small percentage unorthodox (which isn't a ringing endorsement) whereas SSPX sermons were reliable.

The idea that its leaving the Catholic Church to go to the Indult makes no sense and I don't see how someone who believes that isn't essentially making *themselves* to be the Pope.

I cannot find an exact quote from fr. Hesse to support my point momentarily but also do not remember (and I listened to all his tapes like 3 times) that "you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to". Interesting.
The question is what does it mean to leave the Catholic Church. I would say it is to cut yourself off from an uncompromised teaching and sacraments. So while there are individual indult and FSSP priests who truly stick to the Tradition, it is probably hard to say it in general about those two groups. Hence general answer is NO.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 13, 2021, 02:47:20 PM »

Quote from: andy on May 13, 2021, 02:33:24 PM

I cannot find an exact quote from fr. Hesse to support my point momentarily but also do not remember (and I listened to all his tapes like 3 times) that "you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to". Interesting.
The question is what does it mean to leave the Catholic Church. I would say it is to cut yourself off from an uncompromised teaching and sacraments. So while there are individual indult and FSSP priests who truly stick to the Tradition, it is probably hard to say it in general about those two groups. Hence general answer is NO.

I remember it being in here, I might be misremembering.

Poll

If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Church?

Author Topic: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch? (Read 1751 times)

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Matthew

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

andy

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

ByzCat3000

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

Änσnymσus

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

ByzCat3000

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

andy

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?

ByzCat3000

Re: If a SSPX family joins the indult, have they left the Catholic Chuch?