Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on May 08, 2021, 03:24:07 PM
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Question
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Which bright spark set this up? I selected the three options as the insrtuctions allow. Why anonymous?
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Which bright spark set this up?
:laugh1:
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Which bright spark set this up? I selected the three options as the insrtuctions allow. Why αnσnymσus?
And I am not the only one. Five people voted and there are 9 answers. :laugh2:
Back to the drawing board,
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This may have been someone's first try at this.
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And I am not the only one. Five people voted and there are 9 answers. :laugh2:
Back to the drawing board,
Can non-members vote? That might be the difference.
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Five people voted and there are 9 answers. :laugh2:
Just like voting in US elections.
:laugh1:
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What happens if PaPa Francis decides it is time to outlaw the indult Mass? Are they going to return to the SSPX?
It all depends is my final answer.
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I noticed in my area that the folks who go to the SSPX chapel also go to the indult mass. This is especially true after the Wuhan virus.
I can't get it out of mind that Novus Ordo, who just a few years ago were calling the SSPX rogue schismatics are now attending their chapels.
While at the same time, folks who supported their chapels for decades have been thrown under the bus by Society.
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The biggest problem with indult is that one can receive Holy Communion consecrated in NO.
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I noticed in my area that the folks who go to the SSPX chapel also go to the indult mass. This is especially true after the Wuhan virus.
I can't get it out of mind that Novus Ordo, who just a few years ago were calling the SSPX rogue schismatics are now attending their chapels.
While at the same time, folks who supported their chapels for decades have been thrown under the bus by Society.
Not fair, but the first shall be last and the last shall be first.
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I fixed the poll. Good old "one vote per user" now. I had to reset the poll results, to give the results any meaning at all.
Everyone will have to re-vote.
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I fixed the poll. Good old "one vote per user" now. I had to reset the poll results, to give the results any meaning at all.
Everyone will have to re-vote.
Yikes! Sounds like what certain groups wanted to do in Florida in 2000 :jester:
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No, of course not. The Indult is within the Catholic Church and Indult Traditionalists are perfectly traditional Catholics. Indult is now a misnomer of sorts, because there is plainly no Indult necessary anymore. But everyone understands what "Indult" means in this context. Indult Traditionalism is the True Traditionalist position. It harmonizes all of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. It rejects the idea that Vatican II is heretical or that the New Mass is a Black Mass. Vatican II is non-infallible, and the New Mass is an inferior Mass. That's Indult Traditionalism: and also, one should strive to be in regular communion with the Roman Authorities.
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With the SSPX requiring approval for their marriages from Novus Ordo bishops, the word indult should be replaced by SSPX, and the word SSPX in the original replaced by resistance.
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The Indult is part of the Novus Ordo religion. So yes, they have left the Catholic Church.
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The Indult is part of the Novus Ordo religion. So yes, they have left the Catholic Church.
Agree.
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The Novus Ordo sect has not been juridically separated from the Church, therefore, those who, in good faith believe it is the Catholic Church, are not presumed to be outside the Church.
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The Novus Ordo sect has not been juridically separated from the Church, therefore, those who, in good faith believe it is the Catholic Church, are not presumed to be outside the Church.
Sure, the individuals who are ignorant of the distinction between the Novus Ordo and the Catholic Church would not be culpable. But, the fact still remains that they are leaving the structures of the Catholic Church to attending a non-Catholic worship.
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The poll is set up with the presumption that the SSPX is the Catholic Church?
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The poll is set up with the presumption that the SSPX is the Catholic Church?
:confused:
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The poll is set up with the presumption that the SSPX is the Catholic Church?
Is that how you interpret it?
The SSPX is part of the Catholic Church (for now). The Conciliar Church is more debatable. The Indult is part of that Conciliar milieu...
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One of the FSSPX priest from Europe in a recent sermon was very critical of churches where both NO and TLM Masses coexist - I guess this is what happens where indult used to take place and now some NO priests slowly transition. He almost directly said that it is better for the soul to attend NO rather than mix them up.
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He almost directly said that it is better for the soul to attend NO rather than mix them up.
That's ridiculous. How would it be better for the soul to adhere to a blatantly false rite, than, at minimum, a cosplay of the true Mass? At least with the false Indult rite you're getting exposed to the accidentals of the True Mass, even though it lacks its substance. With the Novus Ordo Missae you get not only something visibly repugnant, but also lacking any substance of the Faith whatsoever.
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That's ridiculous. How would it be better for the soul to adhere to a blatantly false rite, than, at minimum, a cosplay of the true Mass? At least with the false Indult rite you're getting exposed to the accidentals of the True Mass, even though it lacks its substance. With the Novus Ordo Missae you get not only something visibly repugnant, but also lacking any substance of the Faith whatsoever.
One can argue that blurring the difference between NO and TLM and normalizing their coexistence in the same church is a way worse evil. As it would be to faithful to chose. Fr. Hesse warned against indult as well.
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One can argue that blurring the difference between NO and TLM and normalizing their coexistence in the same church is a way worse evil. As it would be to faithful to chose. Fr. Hesse warned against indult as well.
Fr. Hesse recommended against actually communing in the Indult if it was uncertain whether the hosts were consecrated in the NO or the TLM, but he actually said you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to. He said you should go to the SSPX at least once a year to receive communion, and he said FSSP/indult sermons might be some small percentage unorthodox (which isn't a ringing endorsement) whereas SSPX sermons were reliable.
The idea that its leaving the Catholic Church to go to the Indult makes no sense and I don't see how someone who believes that isn't essentially making *themselves* to be the Pope.
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Fr. Hesse recommended against actually communing in the Indult if it was uncertain whether the hosts were consecrated in the NO or the TLM, but he actually said you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to. He said you should go to the SSPX at least once a year to receive communion, and he said FSSP/indult sermons might be some small percentage unorthodox (which isn't a ringing endorsement) whereas SSPX sermons were reliable.
That was at least 15 years ago. The SSPX and the Indult certainly haven't gotten any better in that time.
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That was at least 15 years ago. The SSPX and the Indult certainly haven't gotten any better in that time.
Sure, I was just responding based on what was said
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Fr. Hesse recommended against actually communing in the Indult if it was uncertain whether the hosts were consecrated in the NO or the TLM, but he actually said you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to. He said you should go to the SSPX at least once a year to receive communion, and he said FSSP/indult sermons might be some small percentage unorthodox (which isn't a ringing endorsement) whereas SSPX sermons were reliable.
The idea that its leaving the Catholic Church to go to the Indult makes no sense and I don't see how someone who believes that isn't essentially making *themselves* to be the Pope.
I cannot find an exact quote from fr. Hesse to support my point momentarily but also do not remember (and I listened to all his tapes like 3 times) that "you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to". Interesting.
The question is what does it mean to leave the Catholic Church. I would say it is to cut yourself off from an uncompromised teaching and sacraments. So while there are individual indult and FSSP priests who truly stick to the Tradition, it is probably hard to say it in general about those two groups. Hence general answer is NO.
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I cannot find an exact quote from fr. Hesse to support my point momentarily but also do not remember (and I listened to all his tapes like 3 times) that "you *should* attend there if you don't have an SSPX to go to". Interesting.
The question is what does it mean to leave the Catholic Church. I would say it is to cut yourself off from an uncompromised teaching and sacraments. So while there are individual indult and FSSP priests who truly stick to the Tradition, it is probably hard to say it in general about those two groups. Hence general answer is NO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjckUEBkkBI
I remember it being in here, I might be misremembering.