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Author Topic: How can stealing not be a sin?  (Read 3750 times)

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Änσnymσus

  • Guest
How can stealing not be a sin?
« on: December 08, 2020, 01:38:06 AM »
We call know that it is not a sin to steal bread if one is starving. But what about stealing money and giving it to the church? Not unlike Robin Hood (steal from the rich and give to the poor), what about stealing from the immoral and giving to the moral, in this case, a trad Mass center? I read that when stealing has been confessed, the restitution is often to put money into the poor box at church.

So, would stealing be a sin if the amount stolen is given directly to the church?
And if it is a sin, can it be restituted via a donation to the church? I assume that this answer is at the discretion fo the confessor.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: How can stealing not be a sin?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 08:04:05 AM »
Stealing is clear in an environment where property is clear.  Since stealing only applies to property that one can be dispossessed of.

If I have 50 ounces of gold and you steal 1 piece that is stealing.  I have been deprived of the gold, which belonged to me, and which next year or in 10 years time could have bought me a decent set of clothes.  Shoes, suit, coat and other garments. (Interesting that gold throughout its history, per 1oz, has been able to dress a man in decent clothes)

However, in the current zero interest rate environment where money printing is going on or any environment where the state has made you into an economic slave (say North Korea or Soviet Russia or modern Venezuela) then we are closer to stealing bread if you are starving.  Not exactly the same, but closer than a non-inflationary system where money is not being created and destroying the value of your money.

The simple fact is that the governments of the western world are all stealing from their tax base but printing money from thin air.  They get to spend this on lower cost assets because they spend it first (via the major banks), inflation then sets in and by the time the money is in the hands of the peons it has less purchasing power as do your savings.  The government can measure inflation anyway it wishes and frequently changes how it is measured, but the simple fact of the matter is that the things you and I buy, (with few exceptions) are more expensive today than they used to be.  The exceptions are airline flights, gasoline (short term) and mobile phones (like for like) and telephone calls and music (which is free now)

The question is this.  Is stealing bread when one is starving the ONLY situation where stealing is not a sin?

Does one have to steal bread every two days (since one can go for 1 day between without starving) or can one steal a week's worth of bread given that stealing bread on a regular basis is not possible or practical.  Can you steal bread for anticipated starvation if you are in a war zone?

Can you steal bread for your neighbour?  The entire street?

Can you trade some of the stolen bread for butter to put on your bread?

Can one steal smoked-salmon or meat, if there is no bread to steal, or does one have to look for something less valuable like cake or low-budget bread substitutes?  Given that the purpose of the theft is to keep one free and alive, it would seem to me that one would have to opportunistically steal anything one could to feed oneself.  In short, you can steal ANY kind of food that has the lowest risk of being caught and prosecuted for theft.

--

In the United Kingdom currently the government has offered unsecured loans to businesses affected by the Coronavirus.  You can borrow 25% of your businesses revenue as a loan, which does not need to be paid back at all for 12 months and after than at 2.5%

Accountants advised all of their clients to take the money whether they needed it or not.  The banks made the loans and the government guaranteed the banks would be made whole for non-repayment.  To not take the money is stupid because you have free use of the cash for 12 months.  So every business took it whether it needed it or not.

But what has happened (predictably) is that a HUGE number of businesses and limited companies (Americans can these LLCs) that were not even trading have applied for these loans and got them as well as sole traders and even people who fraudulently started companies a week or two before when the rumor circulated that the government would make the loans.  There have been so many loans issued that everyone know there is safety in numbers and that the chances of getting prosecuted are close to zero.

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1344780/Rishi-Sunak-news-uk-taxpayers-bounce-back-loans-businesses-fraud-economy-loss

The banks had no incentive to check the loan particulars because the government were backing them and the had to process so many loans it was impossible to do due-diligence and issue the loans on time.

Many of these smaller businesses who are not doing well will realise it is cheaper to close down their LLC and restart under another business name and just keep the money.  There is nothing the government can do about this, firstly because it is not illegal to do this and secondly because there are just too many people who have taken the loan who will never pay it back.  Safety in numbers.

When governments are printing money out of thin air and lending it to businesses who may or may not need it and have no intention of paying it back then the notion of "property" become very fuzzy.  The only person being stolen from here is the business who did not take the loan and who therefore might lose out in terms of borrowing money at interest later or a slight increase in the price of goods (though this might not even be detectable in a financial collapse) and of course, future taxpayers assuming that these debts are every paid off.

The government created "property" from thin air.  Businesses were loaned that "property", spent the money on goods and services (benefiting someone else as well as themselves and the future taxpayers (perhaps) have been stolen from in terms of the taxes they MIGHT have to pay .  Or maybe the pensions that the government will loot, or the war they will start.  Someone is a thief for sure, but who? 


Offline Yeti

  • Supporter
Re: How can stealing not be a sin?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2020, 08:27:35 AM »
Stealing is a sin, even if for a "good" purpose, such as giving the money to the Church or the poor.

Offline Yeti

  • Supporter
Re: How can stealing not be a sin?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2020, 08:52:26 AM »
Restitution after stealing is only given to the poor or the Church when it is impossible to return the goods to the original owner.
.
By the way, it is hilarious that liberals claim Robin Hood as some sort of socialist hero. When you watch the Disney movie, it is clear that Robin Hood is living in a high-tax, socialistic society, and that he is fighting socialism by stealing tax dollars from the government (Sheriff of Nottingham), and giving it back to the taxpayers. Robin Hood is fighting socialistic confiscatory taxation and promoting small government, property rights and individual autonomy. :laugh1:

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: How can stealing not be a sin?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 09:55:27 AM »
I think King John was taxing people to pay for his failed wars in Normandy.

Not for social programs.

There was something similar to an income tax, as well as a tax on widows, and scutage payments (paying to get out of military conscription).