Why post this anonymously?

Why should anyone trust a character witness in a mask?

And the primary problem with Poche is that he sees us (meaning Cathinfo; meaning Traditional Catholics) as a "challenge."

Poche himself is no more a "challenge" to us than a brick wall is to the repeated banging of a human head. I'd call that a painful exercise in futility, not a "challenge."

The praise for the tiny incidental good Poche might do around here, contrasted with the silence on the overwhelming harm he does is fitting, because it reminds me so much of the kind of lip service paid to incidental "goods" in NO-land while ignoring the monumental evils (a variety of gnat-straining and camel-swallowing that dear old Poche himself loves to engage in here on CI):

"Paul VI is the pope who wrote Humae Vitae! Never mind that he was also responsible for carrying out the most disastrous campaign of de-Catholicization of the Mass, Faith, and Morals in Church history."

"John Paul II is the pope who brought back the Rosary! Never mind that he also tampered with the Rosary; rehabilitated and promoted the condemned devotion to the Divine Mercy; permitted "altar girls;" and publicly prayed in common with heretics, infidels, Jєωs, pagans and diabolists."

"Pope Francis cares deeply about oppression of the poor and defrauding laborers of their wages! Never mind that he's given public tacit endorsement to murder and sodomy by saying that Catholics are too "obsessed" with abortion, and disclaiming his duty to judge those who practice or promote the Sin of Sodom."

You are right BTNYC, I also strongly disagree with POCHE on the
following novusordoisms-

 Paul VI may have wrote Humae Vitae. In carefully reading the letter,
it did not condemned all forms of birth control. All forms of birth
control and NFP should have been condemned.

John Paul II was a devoted modernist and heretic.  It would be an
insult to the Blessed Virgin Mary that he had any devotion to her.

Francis may care for the poor and the workers. All Christians are.
He does not care for their eternal salvation.  Being poor and
without a job is not an excuse to sin against God.

We have meant POCHE challenges.  I like to challenge him because
it nourishes my faith.
Poche is just a victim of the revolution of the 1960's that is still
spilling into our day.
We have meant Poche challenges.

I think for a lot of people, poche represents the Novus Ordo, so they direct most of that pent up energy that has been built up from hearing, reading, and seeing the various scandalous behaviors that are perpetrated by the Novus Ordo mafia towards him, almost as if he were a scapegoat.

It is despite of his erroneous position that I say that his actions on this forum are very simple and sincere. He does not virulently attack others as some do to him, which I respect in a person.

However, there are respected persons on this forum who, despite their vast wealth of knowledge on particular subjects, have that as a disadvantage as they puff themselves up on their pride and vainly conceive a worth that is not of their own.

If there's one thing that we could all learn from poche, it is his simplicity of speech. Sometimes that sort of thing is a breath of fresh air compared to the modern day Pharisee and the Jezebel who deems herself worthy enough to preach and teach in the presence of men.

It seems there's a few things we can learn from you, "guest:"

- Heresy and error are not to be opposed - or at least are to be opposed very mildly - so long as they come from one who is "simple and sincere" about it.

- Those who find themselves having to fruitlessly correct Poche over and over and over again over the course of his 8,000 plus post campaign of shilling on behalf of the Novus Ordo, and who dare to express the exasperation that is naturally concomitant with such a Sisyphean endeavor, are "virulent attackers" of "poor, simple" Novus Ordo propaganda spambomber Poche, and are to be castigated as "puffed up," "proud" "Pharisees (sounds familiar) and Jezebels" (!) who have no "worth" save that which they themselves "vainly conceive."* ...And, no, said castigation does not constitute a "virulent attack," nor an example of rash and subjective judgment because.... Well, just because.

- And finally, that those aforementioned "learned posters," because making use of the mind that God gave them is always and inexorably a display of Pharisaical pride, should start dumbing things down a bit (because, you know, the intellectual insecurities of other posters must be considered and catered to at all possible costs) and start emulating Poche, who, again, is to be applauded for his style, with no account whatsoever (beyond a passing bit of lipservice) being taken of the actual content of his posts.

- Oh and a bonus lesson (though more implicitly taught than the others) - One should not be afraid to take an unpopular stance on a forum.... because one can always do so behind the cowardly mask of total anonymity.

So don't sell yourself short, my anonymous friend. Your elevation of style over substance and weepy appeals to emotion over reason are not only very in tune with the spirit of the current age, but also capable of garnering a thumbs up or two on a forum ostensibly meant for mean ol' Pharisaical trads.

* This marvelous bit of rhetoric is worthy of the mind that came up with "Self-absorbed Promethean neo-Pelagian" - perhaps the Anonymous Coward Guest is remaining safely cloaked in anonymity because he's actually a much higher-profile figure than any of us might imagine...?

Quote from: BTNYC

Quote from: Guest

I think for a lot of people, poche represents the Novus Ordo, so they direct most of that pent up energy that has been built up from hearing, reading, and seeing the various scandalous behaviors that are perpetrated by the Novus Ordo mafia towards him, almost as if he were a scapegoat.

It is despite of his erroneous position that I say that his actions on this forum are very simple and sincere. He does not virulently attack others as some do to him, which I respect in a person.

However, there are respected persons on this forum who, despite their vast wealth of knowledge on particular subjects, have that as a disadvantage as they puff themselves up on their pride and vainly conceive a worth that is not of their own.

If there's one thing that we could all learn from poche, it is his simplicity of speech. Sometimes that sort of thing is a breath of fresh air compared to the modern day Pharisee and the Jezebel who deems herself worthy enough to preach and teach in the presence of men.

It seems there's a few things we can learn from you, "guest:"

- Heresy and error are not to be opposed - or at least are to be opposed very mildly - so long as they come from one who is "simple and sincere" about it.

- Those who find themselves having to fruitlessly correct Poche over and over and over again over the course of his 8,000 plus post campaign of shilling on behalf of the Novus Ordo, and who dare to express the exasperation that is naturally concomitant with such a Sisyphean endeavor, are "virulent attackers" of "poor, simple" Novus Ordo propaganda spambomber Poche, and are to be castigated as "puffed up," "proud" "Pharisees (sounds familiar) and Jezebels" (!) who have no "worth" save that which they themselves "vainly conceive."* ...And, no, said castigation does not constitute a "virulent attack," nor an example of rash and subjective judgment because.... Well, just because.

- And finally, that those aforementioned "learned posters," because making use of the mind that God gave them is always and inexorably a display of Pharisaical pride, should start dumbing things down a bit (because, you know, the intellectual insecurities of other posters must be considered and catered to at all possible costs) and start emulating Poche, who, again, is to be applauded for his style, with no account whatsoever (beyond a passing bit of lipservice) being taken of the actual content of his posts.

- Oh and a bonus lesson (though more implicitly taught than the others) - One should not be afraid to take an unpopular stance on a forum.... because one can always do so behind the cowardly mask of total anonymity.

So don't sell yourself short, my anonymous friend. Your elevation of style over substance and weepy appeals to emotion over reason are not only very in tune with the spirit of the current age, but also capable of garnering a thumbs up or two on a forum ostensibly meant for mean ol' Pharisaical trads.

* This marvelous bit of rhetoric is worthy of the mind that came up with "Self-absorbed Promethean neo-Pelagian" - perhaps the Anonymous Coward Guest is remaining safely cloaked in anonymity because he's actually a much higher-profile figure than any of us might imagine...?

Are you not the one who brought it to our attention that oppressing the poor and defrauding the laborer of his wages are sins that cry out to God for vengence?

Why yes, Poche, you Master of the Non-Sequitur, I am "the one" who did that.

Pursuant to that, I also brought to your attention the following pesky facts which you habitually seem to ignore:

Furthermore, Oppression of the Poor and Defrauding the Laborer of his Wages are the third and fourth on that list - the big two - Murder and Sodomy - are the worst of the bunch, and Francis has been worse than silent on these subjects of abortion and fαɢɢօtry - he has tacitly endorsed them by saying that Catholics are "obsessed" with the former, and claiming "who am I to judge" about the latter.

Modernists spread their errors more often than not by what they fail to say and by placing their emphases on smaller matters whilst placing almost none on the greater.

That's what Our Lord called "straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel," a crime which he laid at the feet of.... you guessed it, the Pharisees.

Well, what do you know: Looks like the mean, nasty trads don't hold a monopoly on pharisaical behavior after all.

Poche, I wrestle with this.  Fwiw, I believe you have honest intent and, to your credit, I've never read any comment of yours that had even a tinge of nastiness.

The 'transsɛҳuąƖ' interloper was also extremely polite and kind-sounding. So was Trickster and a number of NO and atheist trolls on other trad fora. I like someone who shows a bit of nastiness, anger, and frustration once in a while.

Well, has anyone even took the time to ask what poche's intention is?

It is obvious that we are Poche's "mission"--to lead us to acquiescing in conciliardom and paying proper homage to His Humbleness.  I fall ever so slightly short of thinking that it rises to the level of "attempting to convert" that should get him banned.

I have a few times previously made the case that some should be banned for being potential harm to souls of others who may read their posts.  Most of what I have read of Poche's posts are just luke-warm watered-down neutered conciliarist mushy feel-good hogwash completely devoid of any persuasive power.  I find his posts so non-compelling that it seems to me that his presence here has more potential for leading him to find the graces to escape conciliardom than harm to others' souls (though both seem quite unlikely).  If we are to take physical well-being into consideration, I imagine BTNYC's blood pressure soars off the charts because of Poche.

If we are to take physical well-being into consideration, I imagine BTNYC's blood pressure soars off the charts because of Poche.

If we're to believe what he says in the "What's Your dinner" thread, Poche is the one who ought to be concerned about blood pressure (and blood sugar, cholesterol, colon health, etc.).