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Author Topic: Holy Saturday fast time?  (Read 1454 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2024, 06:50:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 06:40:34 AM
    OP here, when I made this thread my breaking of the fast was not in regards to the lenten fast but a no food fast from Maunday Thursday afternoon till Holy Saturday noon/6pm.
    Understood.  You took on a fast that was not required by the Church. 

    Even if you end that fast, per Pius XII you would still be required to abstain and fast until midnight.  You could make your main meal at noon if you decide to do that, but it cannot be meat and then you cannot have another full meal until after midnight.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #16 on: March 30, 2024, 06:51:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 06:43:09 AM
    This doesn't sound right, noon is 12pm but on my traditional calendar it says Holy Saturday is both fasting and abstinence. It does not make sense to finish at 12pm rather than Easter Sunday 12am.
    It does make sense pre-1955 since the Paschal Vigil is held on the morning of Holy Saturday and the First Mass of Easter will have been said by the afternoon of Holy Saturday.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #17 on: March 30, 2024, 07:18:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on March 30, 2024, 06:51:05 AM
    It does make sense pre-1955 since the Paschal Vigil is held on the morning of Holy Saturday and the First Mass of Easter will have been said by the afternoon of Holy Saturday.
    Vigil on a morning.......
    Easter on Holy Saturday.......

     I think I agree with the restored changes by Pope Pius 12th.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #18 on: March 30, 2024, 07:19:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 30, 2024, 06:50:48 AM
    Understood.  You took on a fast that was not required by the Church. 

    Even if you end that fast, per Pius XII you would still be required to abstain and fast until midnight.  You could make your main meal at noon if you decide to do that, but it cannot be meat and then you cannot have another full meal until after midnight.
    Yeah I did some extra but wasn't sure if noon was 3pm or 12pm. I know it used to be 3pm. And I heard that in the past they would fast until noon Holy Saturday.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #19 on: March 30, 2024, 07:51:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 07:18:34 AM
    Vigil on a morning.......
    Easter on Holy Saturday.......

     I think I agree with the restored changes by Pope Pius 12th.
    The "Vigil" was traditionally the liturgy of Holy Saturday, I don't know why people started calling it a vigil, it isn't really, the first mass of Easter is. It makes way more sense that the Holy Saturday liturgy would be earlier in the day instead of cramming everything into a 5 hour liturgy starting at 9pm where half the congregation is dead tired and the children basically have no idea what's going on because they're tired too and it's dark.

    The 3 Easter masses are something separate, it doesn't make sense to combine them back to back like Pius XII did in my opinion. Just like taking communion on Good Friday makes no sense for the faithful in the 62.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #20 on: March 30, 2024, 08:01:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 07:51:44 AM
    Just like taking communion on Good Friday makes no sense for the faithful in the 62.
    What's this? My SSPX priest did not knee for the Jєωs on Friday but we still all had communion, is this a Pius 12th change?
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #21 on: March 30, 2024, 08:39:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 07:51:44 AM
    The "Vigil" was traditionally the liturgy of Holy Saturday, I don't know why people started calling it a vigil, it isn't really, the first mass of Easter is. It makes way more sense that the Holy Saturday liturgy would be earlier in the day instead of cramming everything into a 5 hour liturgy starting at 9pm where half the congregation is dead tired and the children basically have no idea what's going on because they're tired too and it's dark.

    The 3 Easter masses are something separate, it doesn't make sense to combine them back to back like Pius XII did in my opinion. Just like taking communion on Good Friday makes no sense for the faithful in the 62.
    My chapel starts the vigil at 10:30. 9 seems very early.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #22 on: March 30, 2024, 09:27:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 08:01:48 AM
    What's this? My SSPX priest did not knee for the Jєωs on Friday but we still all had communion, is this a Pius 12th change?
    Yes, there was never communion for the faithful on Good Friday prior to the Bugnini changes. 
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #23 on: March 30, 2024, 10:36:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 06:41:33 AM
    Midday is 12pm.... midnight is 12am....
    Yes, I stand corrected.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #24 on: March 30, 2024, 11:53:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on March 30, 2024, 06:48:38 AM
    And I am pre-1955. 😀👍

    Even though I too prefer the pre-1955 Holy Week Rites, I actually think that the time change was not only legitimate but right and proper.  Of course, one could argue that the changes (time and Liturgical changes) must be considered in totality.  I think the two could be separated.  When Pius XII announced the 1955 changes, he made mention only of the time change.  I think it's possible, given his failing health, that he wasn't even completely aware that he was supposed to be endorsing all the changes within the Rites themselves.
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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #25 on: March 30, 2024, 12:11:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 30, 2024, 11:53:10 AM
    Even though I too prefer the pre-1955 Holy Week Rites, I actually think that the time change was not only legitimate but right and proper.  Of course, one could argue that the changes (time and Liturgical changes) must be considered in totality.  I think the two could be separated.  When Pius XII announced the 1955 changes, he made mention only of the time change.  I think it's possible, given his failing health, that he wasn't even completely aware that he was supposed to be endorsing all the changes within the Rites themselves.
    Yes, the idea of the first Mass of Easter being at Midnight makes sense. I quite like it.
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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #26 on: March 30, 2024, 12:19:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 29, 2024, 05:56:05 PM
    I've been fasting since Thursday 3pm, what time is noon traditionally? 12pm? 3pm? Or should I break the fast at 6pm? I am asking because I am starting to feel sickish. I mean breaking the fast on Holy Saturday of course not Good Friday.

    Anonymous so I don't brag about fasting as we are not supposed to tell others of our fasting and mortifications.


    I find this type of fast very spiritually rewarding. Break it after whatever Vigil Mass you attend. Pre-55 would probably be a little after noon and the "restored" vigil would be closer to midnight. 
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #27 on: March 30, 2024, 02:44:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 30, 2024, 11:53:10 AM
    Even though I too prefer the pre-1955 Holy Week Rites, I actually think that the time change was not only legitimate but right and proper.  Of course, one could argue that the changes (time and Liturgical changes) must be considered in totality.  I think the two could be separated.  When Pius XII announced the 1955 changes, he made mention only of the time change.  I think it's possible, given his failing health, that he wasn't even completely aware that he was supposed to be endorsing all the changes within the Rites themselves.

    The services were held in the morning since the 13th century.

    Isn't it strange to change a custom that has been estabilished for this long?

    It does not seem wise to me.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #28 on: March 30, 2024, 03:45:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on March 30, 2024, 02:44:50 PM
    The services were held in the morning since the 13th century.

    Isn't it strange to change a custom that has been estabilished for this long?

    It does not seem wise to me.
    Couldn't the same thing be said for changing the custom prior to the 13th century?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #29 on: March 30, 2024, 03:52:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 30, 2024, 03:45:51 PM
    Couldn't the same thing be said for changing the custom prior to the 13th century?

    Precisely.  It's clear that in the early Church, the Vigils went all night and culminated in the Mass of the Feast Day at dawn.  In fact, the term itself generally refers to a "night" watch, and the imagery/symbolism of the entire Vigil centers on the light dispelling the darkness.  With the Holy Saturday custom, people are going around by noon on Saturday wishing one another "Happy Easter" 24 hours after Good Friday.  Our Lord rose on the THIRD day, not the second.
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