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Author Topic: Have you noticed any difference spiritually going to novus ordo-derived priests?  (Read 15988 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Has anyone knowingly received sacraments from priests that came from the novus ordo, ordained in the new rite by new rite bishops and not conditionally ordained, and noticed any difference compared to receiving them from priests who have been ordained by sspx bishops?

I am referring to sacraments performed using the traditional rites of course, not the new ones. 

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  • Has anyone knowingly received sacraments from priests that came from the novus ordo, ordained in the new rite by new rite bishops and not conditionally ordained, and noticed any difference compared to receiving them from priests who have been ordained by sspx bishops?

    I am referring to sacraments performed using the traditional rites of course, not the new ones.
    The soul has no sense so you won't be able to 'feel' anything. It's all based on theology.


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  • Noticed what sort of difference?  I’d have had no idea of either who ordained him and certainly not the status of the bishop who consecrated his bishop!   
    If you mean an apparent lack of holiness, again, no.  If I saw something out of line, clearly wrong, or bizarre, I’d have definitely remembered it.  I’ve seen more than a few crazy things in the novus ordo over the decades at weddings, funerals, Baptisms, but I treat those more or less as at a Protestant service.  I hold back from receiving the Sacraments and active participation.  
    I’m not in the habit of running a background check and requiring a detailed CV of the priest every time I go to Mass!  

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  • The soul has no sense so you won't be able to 'feel' anything. It's all based on theology.
    I didn’t ask about feelings. I asked if anyone noticed any difference in himself spiritually. 

    What I’m tryin to ascertain is whether it really matters right now if you receive truly valid sacraments or not, given the unprecedented crisis we find ourselves in. We are in a situation where we don’t know if the new rites are valid or not. I tend to think they aren’t. But there are priests ordained in the new rites running around the sspx, offering the traditional sacraments but themselves having being ordained in the new and not the traditional ones. 

    So, for the regular person who goes to such an sspx chapel where there’s one of these novus Ordo priests, will it matter spiritually that he receives the sacraments from such a priest? Or will God still give you the same graces you would’ve received had it been a fully valid priest?

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • The soul has no sense so you won't be able to 'feel' anything. It's all based on theology.

    Perhaps the saints might, but the rest of us don't.

    This reminds me of a woman who had attended the consecration of Bishop Dolan.  Someone in her presence questioned the validity of the consecration, and her response was "I know it was valid.  I could feel the Holy Ghost there."


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  • It’s not about feeling. If you’re receiving invalid sacraments vs real ones, theoretically you should advance more in the spiritual life/virtue, get truly closer to God etc. 

    Is this not the whole question? That this is what evidently is NOT what happens in the novus ordo since Vatican 2? People don’t advance in genuine virtue like you do if you have the real sacraments.

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  • I didn’t ask about feelings. I asked if anyone noticed any difference in himself spiritually.

    What I’m tryin to ascertain is whether it really matters right now if you receive truly valid sacraments or not, given the unprecedented crisis we find ourselves in. We are in a situation where we don’t know if the new rites are valid or not. I tend to think they aren’t. But there are priests ordained in the new rites running around the sspx, offering the traditional sacraments but themselves having being ordained in the new and not the traditional ones.

    So, for the regular person who goes to such an sspx chapel where there’s one of these novus Ordo priests, will it matter spiritually that he receives the sacraments from such a priest? Or will God still give you the same graces you would’ve received had it been a fully valid priest?
    One can believe themselves to be gaining spiritually when they are lessening. The sacraments from NO priests should be considered invalid due to positive doubt. Whether God provides graces in the circuмstances you mentioned is not for us to know.

    What you asked in the first line (bold) is essentially feelings. We should try to use reason and logic to see whether we have progressed in the way of the cross rather than feelings because we can easily deceive ourselves or be tricked by the devil and his angels.

    Perhaps the saints might, but the rest of us don't.

    This reminds me of a woman who had attended the consecration of Bishop Dolan.  Someone in her presence questioned the validity of the consecration, and her response was "I know it was valid.  I could feel the Holy Ghost there."
    Oh dear, that women needs prayers.

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  • One can believe themselves to be gaining spiritually when they are lessening. The sacraments from NO priests should be considered invalid due to positive doubt. Whether God provides graces in the circuмstances you mentioned is not for us to know.

    What you asked in the first line (bold) is essentially feelings. We should try to use reason and logic to see whether we have progressed in the way of the cross rather than feelings because we can easily deceive ourselves or be tricked by the devil and his angels.
    Oh dear, that women needs prayers.
    To clarify I suppose it really depends on what you mean by "notice". I.e whether by feelings or reason etc.


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  • It’s not about feeling. If you’re receiving invalid sacraments vs real ones, theoretically you should advance more in the spiritual life/virtue, get truly closer to God etc.

    Is this not the whole question? That this is what evidently is NOT what happens in the novus ordo since Vatican 2? People don’t advance in genuine virtue like you do if you have the real sacraments.
    I'm sure 'devout' people in the eastern orthodox also 'feel' like they are getting closer to God.

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  • Was this sort of case addressed in sacramental theology before V2? It’s the same thing as saying: what would happen if there is a Mass going on where everyone thinks the priest is a valid priest offering it, but in actual fact he is NOT a valid priest but nobody knows.

    What happens to the faithful? Do they receive zero graces? Less? The same? Of course it’s not their fault at all. 

    Same with confession. 

    Offline SimpleMan

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  • Was this sort of case addressed in sacramental theology before V2? It’s the same thing as saying: what would happen if there is a Mass going on where everyone thinks the priest is a valid priest offering it, but in actual fact he is NOT a valid priest but nobody knows.

    What happens to the faithful? Do they receive zero graces? Less? The same? Of course it’s not their fault at all.

    Same with confession.

    I have to think that they would, indeed, receive graces, due to the disposition of their hearts, not sacramental graces, but God's grace is not confined to the sacraments.  What kind of grace it is, that's outside my pay grade.

    As to the OP, I have noticed "a certain something", can't quite put my finger on it, but it's there.  I struggle for words here (a problem I don't often have), but there is a certain presence, an etherealness, about both SSPX and FSSP priests, whereas priests outside of that framework often seem more "down-to-earth".  One priest I knew, not of the SSPX but associated with them (at the time), was one of the most approachable, friendliest, common men you will ever meet, the kind of guy you could sit down and have a beer with, yet totally traditional and orthodox in the Faith.  It might be a formation issue.


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  • but there is a certain presence, an etherealness, about both SSPX and FSSP priests, whereas priests outside of that framework often seem more "down-to-earth".  One priest I knew, not of the SSPX but associated with them (at the time), was one of the most approachable, friendliest, common men you will ever meet, the kind of guy you could sit down and have a beer with, yet totally traditional and orthodox in the Faith.  It might be a formation issue..
    Here’s your answer.  Compare priests formed by Archbishop LeFebvre, Bishop Williamson, and the French priests who came thereafter.  

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  • I have to think that they would, indeed, receive graces, due to the disposition of their hearts, not sacramental graces, but God's grace is not confined to the sacraments.  What kind of grace it is, that's outside my pay grade.

    As to the OP, I have noticed "a certain something", can't quite put my finger on it, but it's there.  I struggle for words here (a problem I don't often have), but there is a certain presence, an etherealness, about both SSPX and FSSP priests, whereas priests outside of that framework often seem more "down-to-earth".  One priest I knew, not of the SSPX but associated with them (at the time), was one of the most approachable, friendliest, common men you will ever meet, the kind of guy you could sit down and have a beer with, yet totally traditional and orthodox in the Faith.  It might be a formation issue.
    Are all FSSP priests ordained by novus ordo bishops consecrated in the new rites?

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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  • Are all FSSP priests ordained by novus ordo bishops consecrated in the new rites?
    The original priests of the FSSP were ordained by Msgr. Lefebvre. Thesecwere aboutca dozen in number. Although there may be a few priests who were ordained by an SSPX bishop and later joined the FSSP, the seminarians of the FSSP have always been ordained by bishops who had been consecrated (and now most often ordained as priests) in the new rite.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline poenitens

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  • I didn’t ask about feelings. I asked if anyone noticed any difference in himself spiritually.

    What I’m tryin to ascertain is whether it really matters right now if you receive truly valid sacraments or not, given the unprecedented crisis we find ourselves in. We are in a situation where we don’t know if the new rites are valid or not. I tend to think they aren’t. But there are priests ordained in the new rites running around the sspx, offering the traditional sacraments but themselves having being ordained in the new and not the traditional ones.

    So, for the regular person who goes to such an sspx chapel where there’s one of these novus Ordo priests, will it matter spiritually that he receives the sacraments from such a priest? Or will God still give you the same graces you would’ve received had it been a fully valid priest?

    Of course, it DOES matter that you receive valid sacraments. This is how Good God gives you his grace without which everybody would go to Hell. Only very special souls are able to "sense" the effects of the sacraments, for the rest of us, there's faith. 

    Before he apostatized, Luther thought that he should feel butterflies in his stomach after confession, but he never felt them, so he concluded that confession is not a sacrament. The rest is history.

    After their heresiarch, Protestants are notorious butterflies-in-stomach-seekers. True Christians (i.e. Roman Catholics) like St. Paul "walk by faith and not by sight".

    Go look for a validly ordained priest and receive the sacraments with the proper disposition.

    Poenitens

    EDIT: Go read the autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux. She always received the sacraments with the proper disposition (one of her confessors declared that she never committed a mortal sin), but up until a short time before her death she was in a spiritual desert (even to the point of "doubting that there was a Heaven").
    ¡Viva Jesús!

    Please, disregard any opinions and references that I have posted that may seem favorable to any traditionalist group, especially those that pertinaciously deny EENS (CMRI, Sanborn, Dolan and associates, for example).