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Author Topic: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?  (Read 605 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
« on: June 05, 2021, 11:21:15 AM »
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  • Are there any priests who are afraid to say Mass because they don't want Christ to suffer? If the Mass is the reenactment of Calvary, then when the priest is saying Mass he is crucifying Christ again like Pilate, and he does this over and over every time he says Mass. Christ in Holy Communion is Christ on the Cross so to make Him come down to earth is to make him suffer more than He already has. Has anyone ever thought this and refused to say Mass for this reason? 


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #1 on: June 05, 2021, 11:32:32 AM »
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  • Are there any priests who are afraid to say Mass because they don't want Christ to suffer? If the Mass is the reenactment of Calvary, then when the priest is saying Mass he is crucifying Christ again like Pilate, and he does this over and over every time he says Mass. Christ in Holy Communion is Christ on the Cross so to make Him come down to earth is to make him suffer more than He already has. Has anyone ever thought this and refused to say Mass for this reason?
    What Catholic priest believes this?  This sounds like a Protestant charging Catholics with re-sacrificing Christ during every mass.  This is NOT Catholic teaching.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #2 on: June 05, 2021, 11:33:29 AM »
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  • The idea that Christ is re-sacrificed in every Mass is said to be a perversion of the Gospel introduced during the Middle Ages, which to the opponents of the Church is the age of universal ignorance and superstition. To get a general idea of medieval thought on this issue, we can turn to Peter Lombard. Lombard (1100-1160) was the Bishop of Paris and most renowned theologian of the Middle Ages. Let us examine Peter Lombard's understanding of this question in his famous theological treatise, the Sentences. Remember that Peter Lombard was of such authority in the Middle Ages that all aspiring professors of theology were obliged to compose a commentary on Lombard's work in order to obtain their degree. Lombard can thus be taken as the authoritative exposition of medieval theology. In Book IV of the Sentences, he takes up the question of the nature of the Eucharistic sacrifice. Notice the emphasis on the continual offering of Christ, but with the distinction on the different modes or manners of offering:

    The question is posed, whether what the priest does is properly called “sacrifice” or “offering” (immolatio), and whether Christ is offered (immoletur) daily, or was offered only once. The answer can be made briefly, that that which is offered and consecrated by the priest is called sacrifice and offering (oblatio), because it is the memory and representation of the true sacrifice and holy offering (immolatio) made on the altar of the Cross. And Christ died once on the Cross, and there was offered (immolatus) in Himself; but daily He is offered in the Sacrament, because in the Sacrament, there takes place the remembrance of what was done once...… what is done on the altar is and is called a sacrifice; and Christ was offered once, and is offered daily, but in one manner then, in another now. [1]

    The Council of Trent, summoned to clarify the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church on the Mass against the errors of the 'Reformers', reaffirmed the distinctions noted by Peter Lombard. Note its citation of Hebrews 7:25, which we quoted above:

    "And forasmuch as, in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, that same Christ is contained and immolated in an unbloody manner, who once offered Himself in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross; the holy Synod teaches, that this sacrifice is truly propitiatory and that by means thereof this is effected, that we obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid, if we draw nigh unto God [cf. Heb. 7:25], contrite and penitent, with a sincere heart and upright faith, with fear and reverence. For the Lord, appeased by the oblation thereof, and granting the grace and gift of penitence, forgives even heinous crimes and sins. For the victim is one and the same, the same now offering by the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner alone of offering being different." [2]

    This same teaching and distinctions are found in the writings of the Church Fathers as well. St. Augustine of Hippo teaches that the Mass is a true and proper sacrifice, for the very reason that it has a "real resemblance" to the historical death of Christ upon the Cross:

    "Was not Christ once for all offered up in His own person as a sacrifice? And yet, is He not likewise offered up in the sacrament as a sacrifice, not only in the special solemnities of Easter, but also daily among our congregations; so that the man who, being questioned, answers that He is offered as a sacrifice in that ordinance, declares what is strictly true? For if sacraments had not some points of real resemblance to the things of which they are the sacraments, they would not be sacraments at all" [3].

    In noting the "real resemblance" of the sacraments to that which they signify, he is referring to what has been since called the 'sign value' or 'signification' of the sacrament. In the Eucharist, the wine signifies the pouring out of Christ's blood and the broken bread His broken body upon the cross. This signification via the proper elements actually makes present that reality which is signified; thus, the offering of the Mass with the proper matter and form actually makes present Christ and His one offering, which is why the Mass is truly a sacrifice. This is basic sacramental theology - the Mass is truly the sacrifice of Christ, not because it is identical with the historical sacrifice of the cross or because Christ is dying again, but because of the "real resemblance" between the two manners of offering which bring forth the sacramental realities. It is noteworthy that where Augustine writes “He is sacrificed”, he uses the present infinitive “immolari”, expressing a continual action - the ongoing, perpetual unbloody offering of Christ to the Father.

    Conclusion

    There is an intimate link between the sacrifice of the cross and that of the Mass. Both are offerings of Christ the high priest; in both cases, Christ is also the victim. Because of this "real resemblance", it is right and proper to call the Mass a sacrifice in the true and proper sense, understanding that it is nothing else than the sacrifice of Christ to God the Father for the sins of the world. The sacrifice is the same, though the manner in which it is presented is different - one bloody, the other unbloody; one happening once in history, the other perpetually - which means that, while Christ is continually offering Himself to the Father in the sacrifice of the Mass, He is not slain daily. He "dies no more", as St. Paul says in the Epistle to the Romans. In fact, if He were not alive forever more, He could not make this perpetual intercession at the right hand of the Father.

    Ad majorem Dei gloriam. 

    NOTES 
    [1] Peter Lombard, Sentences, Lib. IV, Dist. 12 
    [2] Council of Trent, Session 22, Chapter 2
    [3] St. Augustine of Hippo, Letter 98:9

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #3 on: June 05, 2021, 01:21:51 PM »
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  • What Catholic priest believes this?  This sounds like a Protestant charging Catholics with re-sacrificing Christ during every mass.  This is NOT Catholic teaching.

    Agreed. This is heretical nonsense.

    I don't know what you've been reading, or where you're hanging out, OP, but you need to stop whatever it is!
    You're going to endanger your faith. The Faith can be lost, you know. Especially if you throw it to the dogs.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2021, 02:29:21 PM »
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  • OP here. This is not a belief I hold. I was just wondering if it was a real heresy or not that real people actually believed. Perhaps you can scold me for wondering.


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2021, 08:07:55 PM »
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  • Years ago, I heard about an unnamed "priest" who had this opinion.  If I remember correctly, it was from one of those Jack Chick pamphlets (or Watchtower, or some other Protestant/Pagan group) that someone put under my windshield wiper.  It's just a blur now, but I think in the end, the pamphlet said that the "priest" had finally "found Christ", was "born again", and repented of becoming a "priest" in the "sect of the anti-Christ".

    So, yes.  It's a real heresy that many anti-Catholics really hold but I've never heard of an actual Catholic priest who held it.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #6 on: June 05, 2021, 08:28:03 PM »
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  • The idea is simply horrifying.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard This Before?
    « Reply #7 on: June 05, 2021, 08:35:48 PM »
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  • 1Corii.3-26

    3For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread.  24And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me.  25In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.  26For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 

    While Mass is being offered Gods Mercy is available for all who become members of the Catholic faith.