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Author Topic: Grown Up Children  (Read 3450 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Grown Up Children
« on: September 09, 2016, 10:55:34 AM »
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  • It saddens me to see pious traditional Catholic parents today, who have home-schooled their children with endless love and devotion during all their lives, just to see them lose the Faith completely once they grow up. The children become apostates, living completely secular sinful lives, not any different from the non-Catholics. What a cross and disappointment, after so many years of dedication!, like all these efforts were for nothing.  

    As a parent of very small children, it brings me almost to the point of despair, to see this phenomenon all around me. Children brought up in Tradition...

    What have the parents done wrong? How can you really pass the Faith on in the midst of a depraved, satanic society such as this? and how do you prepare yourself to bear this suffering of seeing your children in the way of eternal perdition?


    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 11:19:10 AM »
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  • Sometimes the parents have not done anything wrong.  They have raised their children, preserved them from occasions of sin, taught them the faith, etc., etc., etc.  But, ultimately, some of the children, having free will, choose to reject the graces given them.

    On the other hand, sometimes, I think, some parents don't give their children the tools they need to resist temptations when they leave home.  They don't teach them why the world is evil, why the Conciliar church destroys the faith, why non-Catholic "friends" cannot truly be close friends, etc., etc., etc.

    When children are younger, the most damaging thing, I think, parents can do is send their children off to public school or even to a Conciliar "catholic" school.  It is nearly impossible to compete with "the world" when "the world" has the undivided attention of the children for two-thirds of their days.  (By the way, when I wrote something very similar to this on another forum not too long ago, one member condemned me for loving to pass judgment on others.  Well, if you think this, then I believe it is because your conscience is bothering you.)

    I've told my children that according to all the statistics, at least some of them will reject God when they leave home--though I pray that this will not be the case.  However, I also tell them that if they do they will not be able to point to me and claim that I allowed them to stray or will simply go along with their chosen lifestyle.

    It is indeed sad when children of pious parents choose to reject the faith.  


    Änσnymσus

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    Grown Up Children
    « Reply #2 on: September 11, 2016, 09:48:33 PM »
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  • There have been many traditional Catholics whom I have known who raised their children well, yet the children were taken in my the world and human respect as they became adults.  Our era is such a dangerous time to live in...

    The best thing to do is to try and imitate Saint Monica, and follow Padre Pio's words:  "Pray, hope, and trust everything to God."

    Keep fighting and may God bless you and your loved ones!  :-)

    Änσnymσus

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    Grown Up Children
    « Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 10:33:43 PM »
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  • The problem is the materialism.  And, that started with the renaissance.  We have to get back to the rugged hard living that was normal and worldwide before the renaissance.  And, we do not have to see a societal collapse in order to practice this precept in spirit.  That is a mistake.

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    Grown Up Children
    « Reply #4 on: September 12, 2016, 03:30:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Sometimes the parents have not done anything wrong.  They have raised their children, preserved them from occasions of sin, taught them the faith...

    I've told my children that according to all the statistics, at least some of them will reject God when they leave home--though I pray that this will not be the case.  However, I also tell them that if they do they will not be able to point to me and claim that I allowed them to stray or will simply go along with their chosen lifestyle.


    If you live a Catholic life and raise your children in the Faith, you MUST tell them this very thing when they are mature enough to receive it. They will know that they are ultimately responsible before God, and those parents can let themselves "off the hook" instead of going to their graves feeling guilty of sin they did not commit.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 05:57:45 PM »
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  • The wisdom we need is found here:

    Luke 13:31
    [31] Or what king, about to go to make war against another king, doth not first sit down, and think whether he be able, with ten thousand, to meet him that, with twenty thousand, cometh against him? [32] Or else, whilst the other is yet afar off, sending an embassy, he desireth conditions of peace. [33] So likewise every one of you that doth not renounce all that he possesseth, cannot be my disciple.

    In other words, we have to be prudent. We have to be smart, not just "mean well" or be pious.

    You can love God all you want, but if you send your children to public school, let them have non-Catholic friends, buy them a smartphone at age 10, and let them watch TV, they are *going* to be corrupted. Doing this would be like engaging in battle with your 10,000 troops against your enemy who has 20,000. You're not gonna win.

    Prudence dictates you work out a peace with him. And prudence for a Trad Catholic today likewise dictates that you surrender, as it were, and take your children out of the world, lest they be spiritually destroyed. The odds are simply stacked against them.

    The influence of your Trad priest for 1 hour a week, and even your own influence, just can't compete. Especially if they spend lots of time, as children, in the world. The world will form them more than you will.

    This is something of a favorite topic of mine.
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #6 on: September 12, 2016, 06:08:52 PM »
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  • I know children have free will, and that children apostatize even from good families. But you can increase your chances by doing a good job as parents, and being prudent.

    My theory is that this phenomenon of "out of the blue apostasy" doesn't happen nearly as often as you might think.

    For example, take these 2 Trad families. I knew both of them personally. Let's call them the Alphas and the Betas.

    Mr. Alpha had a large Catholic family, and went to a Trad chapel every Sunday with his wife and children. But he also fell for Bishop Fellay's line of bull that we need to "get back in Rome" lest we all end up Schismatic. Also, one or more of his daughters started wearing scandalously short skirts, and started to run into trouble with fellow Trad parishioners. So for these two reasons (the SSPX slide towards the Indult, and his daughters getting criticized for how they were dressing) he took his whole family to the local Indult Tridentine Mass.

    Mrs. Alpha likes this move, because she's all about socializing. She wouldn't like the Resistance, because there are less mothers there to socialize with.

    Now they live in an Indult milieu, where short skirts aren't a problem. Let's face it -- you are going to find more worldly people at an Indult chapel than you would at a more serious Trad chapel.

    Point #1: If Mr. & Mrs. Alpha suffer any of their children becoming apostates, can we really say, "Oh, what a shame! It was totally outside their control!"

    I wouldn't.

    On to the next example --

    Mr. and Mrs. Beta are another Trad Catholic family. They have been Trad for decades. But this family has a different problem -- discipline. The children receive almost no discipline, at least before age 6 or 7. The parents don't agree on discipline, so the children all become master manipulators. By the time Mr. Beta is forced to start attempting some form of discipline, it's too late -- and half-hearted attempts are made at excessive spanking to make up for it. Empty threats, irregular enforcement -- all the usual parental mistakes when it comes to discipline. Even Mr. Beta has a real soft spot for TV and other material things, and his kids pick up on this. They crave smartphones, TV, movies, the beach, and all manner of worldly things. The parents are very strict in various ways, but they certainly fail to teach their children the WHY of Catholic morality and living. They are more about threats and appeals to authority. And, again, Mr. Beta probably causes more resentment than anything else. Imagine being a child raised from an early age to do whatever you want, then all the sudden you get beat for doing something "wrong". You'd feel it was unfair, and you'd be right.

    Point #2: If any of these "Beta" children became apostates, could you really say, "Oh man, what a shame! That could happen to anyone! They were all raised Trad Catholic and everything!"

    No, because a wise man knows that if you fail to teach MORTIFICATION, they will likely fall into sins of impurity which enslaves the Will, darkens the Intellect, and leads to apostasy. It's a simple pattern that you can observe happening millions of times over in the world.
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #7 on: September 12, 2016, 06:19:33 PM »
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  • In other cases, the parents' alleged beliefs and actual lifestyle don't agree. Children WILL see right through that. "Do as I say, not as I do" DOES NOT WORK.

    If the father doesn't take religion seriously, then neither will the children. And certainly not the boys! Boys, once they hit puberty, have no interest in being anything other than a MAN. If they don't know any masculine, male role models whom they can imitate and still be Catholic, then they will choose a role model who doesn't practice the Faith.

    A role model is that important!

    I know that in my case, I was blessed with several good male role models. My dad practiced his faith, so at least he wasn't a negative influence. But even more important was the example of my dad's uncle, Thomas A. Nelson. I saw him take religion VERY seriously, and he was much more successful than my dad. I saw him as more intelligent, more successful, and more educated than my dad, and that was the kind of man I was aiming to be. He also taught me my catechism, and how to serve Mass. Those early mornings serving Mass with Mr. Nelson at 6:00 in the morning are one of the reasons I kept my Faith, and later entered the seminary.

    Also, my mom's brother was a pretty serious Catholic too. And our priest (Fr. Frank Slupski, now a bishop) was certainly a virile man. So I wasn't ashamed to keep my Catholic Faith on into manhood.

    I am firmly convinced that good example (parents, teachers, priests, relatives) is crucial in the raising of children. And it helps to have more role models available than JUST the two parents. Sometimes a boy isn't a complete carbon copy of his dad, and it helps for the boy to have other "options" than simply following his dad's life path. But those additional role models should be Catholic as well...


    Another thing -- having your home be a refuge from the world, a beautiful place where true love (Charity) is king, is also very important. If your children have great happy memories of their Catholic upbringing, they will have little reason to ever leave it behind. If everything HUMAN nudges them to stay Catholic, that is a good thing. It's easier to swim with the current than against it.

    It's true that many people have separated with family for the sake of the Faith. But it's much better when that natural attachment to family ENCOURAGES THEM to stay Catholic, for the sake of mom, dad, and their siblings! Having human emotion as an ally is certainly better than having it as an enemy.

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    Offline Matto

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    « Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 06:44:19 PM »
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  • It seems like a mystery of God to me. Some people are brought up by good traditional Catholic families who live the faith and instill virtue in their children and when the children grow up they leave the faith or worse, go to the Novus Ordo. And others are brought up by godless parents and when they grow up they become trads. I know I grew up Novus Ordo and then I converted to traditional Catholicism as an adult.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #9 on: September 12, 2016, 10:24:52 PM »
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  • How often does a Trad-raised child leave for the Novus Ordo, when they have no memory of being Novus Ordo?

    Going BACK to the Novus Ordo is one thing -- but it seems to me that most apostates prefer to be a "nothing" rather than protestant/novus ordo.

    Unless they are going BACK there, to escape perceived problems in the Traditional movement.
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    Änσnymσus

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    « Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 02:17:21 AM »
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  • Mine accuse me of bringing God into everything, and my husband supports them in that, it does not make for a happy home, let alone Catholic.


    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 05:38:48 AM »
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    Mine accuse me of bringing God into everything, and my husband supports them in that, it does not make for a happy home, let alone Catholic.


    This is the saddest comment I've read on the forum ever.

    I will pray for your husband.

    Änσnymσus

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    Grown Up Children
    « Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 11:26:39 PM »
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  • Great post! Necessary!  I to can be accused of bringing up God.  My husband felt this way but did not show it, but he was uncomfortable.  He fell into sin, when he was truly sorry, he came back reborn.  Age 54, mid-crisis?  Probably but it did it's damage and hurt. But we came back and I saw how the Holy Ghost works when you have true sacraments of Penance and a good Confessor.

    I for one made sure that our children (ages 24 -34) saw how God moves.  I wanted them to see the hurt as well as the beauty of a saved soul.  That dad was different and what that meant.  You take what you have and you work with it with the Holy Family to help you.

    I don't get the uncomfortableness any more.  My husband wants to read more religious books and takes more interest.  He came from a family of 2, that is all they could have and were pampered.  I came from a family of 9 and we never had that  and never did I expect it.  

    Of our 4 children, 3 were home schooled, Thank God!  As mom, I learnt alot and was excited for the truth in the curriculum about our heritage!  How Blessed and Graced we were to have truth while others hunt or don't care to hunt for it.

    Of the 4, 2 stay with Traditional CMRI, and 1 fell but is trying to get back and we continue to use "carrots".  Another is Traditional and grandsons are being taught the Faith, the husband needs conversion.

    We as parents, have had the tears and joys.  It is rough, BUT, Thank God the sacraments are still there and working for the evil is thick!

    I Thank God for what we do have and know what we could have had if we were New Order and our children in public school.  I know that our family would have been lost!  Thank God for Our Lady.  As husband and wife, we do the Total consecration every year, for 14 years now.  

    So, stay prayerful and watch as Christ told His apostles.  Christ had one, leave, Judas, and Peter who denied Christ.  His family hurt too, but it did go on!

    Offline songbird

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    « Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 11:29:32 PM »
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  • The above post by Songbird.

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    « Reply #14 on: September 16, 2016, 09:26:38 AM »
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  • At the end of the day, you can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink.  That's the mystery of free will.

    I do want to say that many Traditional Catholics are plagued with bitter zeal, which turns children off to the faith.  So they not infrequently rebel against this bad attitude.