Author Topic: Fr Taouk on voting (Read 7991 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #30 on:** May 14, 2019, 12:33:15 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 14, 2019, 11:16:02 AM

There's no such thing as a "non viable" candidate, unless you listen to the media, which uses psychology and fake polls to make people think that "so and so" doesn't have a chance. If people voted for the best candidate instead of who has the best chance of winning, America would be better off. Yes, if you vote for the best candidate, regardless of polls, you fulfill your obligation.
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Another factor which people forget: Typically, only the major races (president, congress, governor) are covered by the media with much effort. Certainly these races are important, but there's usually only 2 candidates which have a chance here. The major opportunity to change america is at the local/state level. The races where no one knows the candidates too well and they are often forgotten (i.e. a state's secretary of state, or state auditor, state senate). If people concentrated as much on these races as they do on the governor or US Congress, each state could be changed for the better, very rapidly. This would have an effect on DC, as state's Attorney Generals and Governors are affected by the state congress and can affect the US Congress through legislation and lawsuits.
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My whole point is that if you get into this mindset where you only have to vote when a candidate "has a chance", or you don't have to vote if there's no good candidate, then you are probably going to avoid voting/caring on the local races, since you don't vote/care about the bigger ones. Not following the local/state races is a major lost opportunity that America's middle class has squandered for the last 50 years.

Yes, i understand this notion of trying to force the two-party system and marginalizing the other candidates.

I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. Let's say I write in my uncle for President. Clearly non-viable. ZERO chance of winning. He didn't even declare as a candidate. Would that be a sin, in your opinion, or would it satisfy the obligation of voting?

This is tricky. If someone says there's a grave obligation to vote, why is that? If it's merely a theoretical moral principle, then I satisfied my obligation by voting for my uncle. But if it's wrong not to vote because that would help enabled a bad candidate to win who might do grave harm to the nation and to the laws of God, then it would be just as wrong for me to vote for my uncle as it would be not to vote.

See how the theoretical and the practical are hopelessly muddled when it comes to the "theology of voting"?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #31 on:** May 14, 2019, 12:36:40 PM »

I voted for Trump, but now I regret my decision. I highly suspected that he was a Jєωιѕн-controlled agent out of the gate, and now this has been confirmed. I should have gone with my gut instinct. In any case, Trump did appoint a less-evil Supreme Court Justice than Hillary would have, and may have the chance again if the death of Ginsburg ever sees the light of day. PS -- if Ginsburg magically and suddenly "dies" shortly after a Democrat is elected in 2020, you could be sure that had been on ice for months or years before then.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #32 on:** May 14, 2019, 12:50:30 PM »

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In any case, Trump did appoint a less-evil Supreme Court Justice than Hillary would have, and may have the chance again if the death of Ginsburg ever sees the light of day.

Exactly. There are so many issues at play. So many ways that a candidate can affect good laws indirectly. I did not vote Trump, mainly because I thought he was a neo-con. 2 years in, I'd say I was partially wrong. He's less of a neo-con than Bush Jr, by far, and I voted for Bush Jr.

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Would that be a sin, in your opinion, (to vote for a random person) or would it satisfy the obligation of voting?

I think it depends on the circuмstances. Do I think that every person has an obligation to vote? Yes. Is that obligation always a GRAVE obligation? No, it depends on the circuмstances. In my state, Trump was going to win, so I voted for a 3rd party candidate, on principle. If it was a close race, i'd have voted for him, since it was a vote against Hillary, who was gravely evil.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #33 on:** May 14, 2019, 01:35:06 PM »

Here's the other practical test, related to voting and possible sins of omission/laziness: How much effort does it cost one to vote? How much potential evil could happen if you DON'T vote? The cost/benefits are amazing.
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You search the internet to find one of the many, free family/pro-life organizations that provide you a FREE voting guide. You print it off, you drive to the voting place and you vote. The cost of voting is literally a few hours every 2 years.
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The benefit is you avoid all kinds of moral and non-moral evils. From abortion, to contraception included in insurance, to police state policies, to voting fraud, to forced vaccinations, to welfare $ to illegal immigrants, etc, etc. Sure, if you want to make a moral argument that you don't have to vote, fine. Will you face the consequences of having a bad country and a police state? Yes.
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You can make a moral argument that you don't have to exercise or eat healthy too. Will you face the consequences later in life? Yes. I think this type of thing falls under the old saying in moral theology: Just because something can be done (i.e. avoid voting) doesn't mean it should be. The letter of the law kills.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #34 on:** May 14, 2019, 01:44:13 PM »

See, here's the thing. You never directly addressed my question.

If it's OK to vote for "my uncle" in an election, then it should be equally OK not to vote at all ... since voting for my uncle will have no more effect on the outcome than not voting at all.

So what's the principle requiring me to vote? Do you get the problem here?

To me, if voting for my uncle is permitted, then not voting at all is also permitted ... because it has the same effect, at the end of the day.

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Author Topic: Fr Taouk on voting (Read 7991 times)

Ladislaus

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Pax Vobis

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