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Author Topic: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?  (Read 7707 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2022, 11:30:21 AM »
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  • "If any good-willing souls were harmed through all this, I beg pardon."

    Here he did not publicly repudiate the cult, nor explain his silence on serious moral and spiritual matters which occurred under his tenure.

    He adopted a "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" attitude while in KY, choosing rather to put his head in the sand.

    A public abjuration is absolutely in order.

    This is along the lines of what I was thinking.


    1. The fact I forgot about it, but I certainly remember all the stuff Fr. Hewko said and did -- INCLUDING SLANDER AGAINST THIS FORUM IN GENERAL -- shows that his apology was inadequate. It's been many years; I don't remember what all he said against CathInfo and/or the people on it -- but the cause of truth demands that he at least TRY to repair the damage. After all, the discussions on CathInfo (about Pablo, Boston, Fr. Pfeiffer, etc.) were apparently right and he was wrong -- according to him! So how many people did he drive away from the truth, and other truths, by slandering the forum? Was God's cause hurt or helped?

    2. Just for starters, he never addressed any of the particular things he was sorry for. That's a bit too easy, a cop out, don't you think? That's like going into the confessional and saying, "I was a bad sinner. Please give me absolution." Would that show any level of contrition or sorrow, any kind of repentance? No, it would not.

    3. Taking the attitude "let's just not talk about it" is the opposite of the attitude of conversion, repentance. If you truly wake up, convert, become repentant, you FULLY AVERT to what you've done, you are anxious to make amends, ask forgiveness, and are "broken up" about it (which is what contrite literally means in Latin).

    4. As far as I know, he's not done anything to repair any damage to the apostolate of Bp. Zendejas or others who he caused harm to by his words, his silence, etc. (see list below)

    5. You're spot-on about Fr. Hewko's participation in the evils of Boston, KY. He primarily was guilty of being a BLIND FOLLOWER, an ENABLER, putting his head in the sand. As we know in our Catholic doctrine, there is more than one way to commit a sin. Read this list, and tell me Fr. Hewko wasn't guilty of actual sins, public sins, during his years in Boston, KY:

    According to Catholic teaching, there are 9 ways of being an accessory to another’s sin.
    • By counsel.
    • By command.
    • By consent.
    • By provocation.
    • By praise or flattery.
    • By concealment.
    • By partaking.
    • By silence.
    • By defense of the ill done.

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #16 on: July 10, 2022, 11:44:42 AM »
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  • This is along the lines of what I was thinking.


    1. The fact I forgot about it, but I certainly remember all the stuff Fr. Hewko said and did -- INCLUDING SLANDER AGAINST THIS FORUM IN GENERAL -- shows that his apology was inadequate. It's been many years; I don't remember what all he said against CathInfo and/or the people on it -- but the cause of truth demands that he at least TRY to repair the damage. After all, the discussions on CathInfo (about Pablo, Boston, Fr. Pfeiffer, etc.) were apparently right and he was wrong -- according to him! So how many people did he drive away from the truth, and other truths, by slandering the forum? Was God's cause hurt or helped?

    2. Just for starters, he never addressed any of the particular things he was sorry for. That's a bit too easy, a cop out, don't you think? That's like going into the confessional and saying, "I was a bad sinner. Please give me absolution." Would that show any level of contrition or sorrow, any kind of repentance? No, it would not.

    3. Taking the attitude "let's just not talk about it" is the opposite of the attitude of conversion, repentance. If you truly wake up, convert, become repentant, you FULLY AVERT to what you've done, you are anxious to make amends, ask forgiveness, and are "broken up" about it (which is what contrite literally means in Latin).

    4. As far as I know, he's not done anything to repair any damage to the apostolate of Bp. Zendejas or others who he caused harm to by his words, his silence, etc. (see list below)

    5. You're spot-on about Fr. Hewko's participation in the evils of Boston, KY. He primarily was guilty of being a BLIND FOLLOWER, an ENABLER, putting his head in the sand. As we know in our Catholic doctrine, there is more than one way to commit a sin. Read this list, and tell me Fr. Hewko wasn't guilty of actual sins, public sins, during his years in Boston, KY:

    According to Catholic teaching, there are 9 ways of being an accessory to another’s sin.
    • By counsel.
    • By command.
    • By consent.
    • By provocation.
    • By praise or flattery.
    • By concealment.
    • By partaking.
    • By silence.
    • By defense of the ill done.
    Seems to me he did all of the above, except maybe provocation.


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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #17 on: July 10, 2022, 11:49:34 AM »
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  • Quote
      Seems to me he did all of the above, except maybe provocation.


    Not sure this is true.  Many times I heard justification of evil from his mouth.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #18 on: July 10, 2022, 01:13:36 PM »
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  • No apologies are needed.
    What is needed is a public abjuration.

    "Abjuration" of WHAT?  Abjuration (a technical term) is for having joined a formally schismatic or heretical sect.  This is ridiculous.  Use the word "renunciation" instead.

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #19 on: July 10, 2022, 01:16:29 PM »
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  • 2. Just for starters, he never addressed any of the particular things he was sorry for.

    Well, he did.  It just wasn't a particularly detailed list.

    He was sorry for having been involved in 1) the Moran situation and 2)  the Pablo situation.

    Perhaps these are the only 2 things he felt he did wrong.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #20 on: July 10, 2022, 01:20:37 PM »
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  • Not sure this is true.  Many times I heard justification of evil from his mouth.

    You can't just say this without some examples as evidence.  Otherwise, this also borders on calumny.  It's one thing to argue that something is NOT evil, and quite another thing to justify evil.  In claiming that he justified evil, you're begging the question that what he was justifying was in fact evil.  What I suspect you mean is that Father Hewko argued that something you believe to be evil is not in fact evil.  One might be a mistake or error in judgment, while the other one indicates malice ... so it's very important that you be clear on what you mean by this.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #21 on: July 10, 2022, 02:47:28 PM »
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  • Sounds like the poison of the Boston cult still flows through Fr. Hewko's veins, if what you say is true.

    Fr. Pfeiffer took a very extremist and CONTRADICTORY position on the Crisis in the Church. In most ways, he sounded like a Sedevacantist. But actually the Sedevacantist position is more coherent than Fr. Pfeiffer's position. And Fr. P certainly diverges from +ABL. But then Fr. P attacks Sedevacantism with a passion -- except when he uses Sedevacantist bishops for Orders. It's hard to know WHAT he really believes. Probably whatever the latest potential donor with deep pockets firmly believes...

    He diverged from Archbishop Lefebvre, who he claimed to follow, while accusing his "competitors" of being unfaithful to +ABL's position and work. But +ABL never said the Novus Ordo was always and in all places invalid. Nor did he say that miracles were impossible outside the world of the Traditional Movement, after the year 1969.

    We've discussed Valtorta plenty of times here and I don't care to have another thread on it at this time. Suffice to say: YES you can work closely with Bishop Williamson and disagree with him about Valtorta. Or Garabandal for that matter. +W has private opinions and he doesn't force them on others as a pre-condition for working with him, or for not getting attacked by him. That is indeed how Fr. Pfeiffer operates -- you have to fully agree with him, or it's war! But that's not how +W operates.

    Unlike certain cult leaders *cough Fr. Pfeiffer cough*, Bp. Williamson is able to distinguish between dogma and opinion. And between denial of dogma (heresy) and disagreement on matters of opinion (completely permitted).

    But of course, Fr. Pfeiffer is a human being, and so he ends up being a classic case of PROJECTION -- removing flaws from yourself and projecting them onto your adversary. But that still doesn't make it true!

    And if these vagus priests can't get past the personality and quirks of +W, then go with another good Resistance bishop. Might I suggest Bp. Faure, Bp. Zendejas, or Bp. Thomas Aquinas?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #22 on: July 10, 2022, 02:53:31 PM »
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  • Not everything is a matter of dogma or heresy.

    My Liturgy professor used to throw away copies of the "Pieta" booklet he found at the Seminary literature table that people had placed there. He told the whole Liturgy class he considered the Pieta "Spiritual shit". And yes, that's a direct quote.

    Is the Pieta heretical? I've seen it at many SSPX chapels. Meanwhile this particular professor felt very strongly about it.
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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #23 on: July 10, 2022, 02:55:28 PM »
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  • Thirdly, how could they submit to a Bishop who ... promotes a totally novel idea of loose networks of autonomous resistance? How does submission look in that regard?

    This is actually a pretty solid point.  Bishop Williamson isn't really accepting submission from priests.  As for this "totally novel idea," I actually think it's very fitting given the Crisis.  Bishop Williamson sees the danger of bishops setting up as if they had real authority or jurisdiction.  He COULD have started a new rival Society, of which he would have been the unquestioned leader, but he chose not to.  Even before he was expelled from SSPX, he would often say that the SSPX was an artificial authority structure and that the only thing that was holding it together was the person of Archbishop Lefebvre.  This speaks well of Bishop Williamson's humility, as he has no desire to form some organization that he believes will "save" the Church ... whereas you have +?Pfeiffer believing that his group IS the Church (for all intents and purposes).  Great contrast there.

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #24 on: July 10, 2022, 02:57:21 PM »
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  • This is actually a pretty solid point.  Bishop Williamson isn't really accepting submission from priests.  As for this "totally novel idea," I actually think it's very fitting given the Crisis.  Bishop Williamson sees the danger of bishops setting up as if they had real authority or jurisdiction.  He COULD have started a new rival Society, of which he would have been the unquestioned leader, but he chose not to.  Even before he was expelled from SSPX, he would often say that the SSPX was an artificial authority structure and that the only thing that was holding it together was the person of Archbishop Lefebvre.  This speaks well of Bishop Williamson's humility, as he has no desire to form some organization that he believes will "save" the Church ... whereas you have +?Pfeiffer believing that his group IS the Church (for all intents and purposes).  Great contrast there.

    sigh ... that was my post

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #25 on: July 10, 2022, 03:01:08 PM »
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  • Yes, Bishop Williamson wouldn't expect complete agreement on non-dogmatic points.  He's been criticized for providing Sacraments to a Feeneyite group.  I do think, however, that he would insist upon a certain amount of respect, that if you disagree with him, you should be respectful about it.  If it's a disagreement that's a non-starter for you, then you should probably find a different bishop to work with.  I still recall the bizarre open letter written by Father Pfeiffer attacking the Bishop of Broadstairs.  After such extreme disrespect, I'm not sure how you would expect the bishop to continue providing Sacraments (especially Holy Orders) for your group.  Not to mention that it made Fr. Pfeiffer look extremely unhinged and not someone who'd be fit for the episcopacy.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #26 on: July 10, 2022, 03:10:21 PM »
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  • This is actually a pretty solid point.  Bishop Williamson isn't really accepting submission from priests.  As for this "totally novel idea," I actually think it's very fitting given the Crisis.  Bishop Williamson sees the danger of bishops setting up as if they had real authority or jurisdiction.  He COULD have started a new rival Society, of which he would have been the unquestioned leader, but he chose not to.  Even before he was expelled from SSPX, he would often say that the SSPX was an artificial authority structure and that the only thing that was holding it together was the person of Archbishop Lefebvre.  This speaks well of Bishop Williamson's humility, as he has no desire to form some organization that he believes will "save" the Church ... whereas you have +?Pfeiffer believing that his group IS the Church (for all intents and purposes).  Great contrast there.

    Indeed, Ladislaus.

    Can't disagree with +W there. A lot of the chaos and evil in the Traditional movement is due to priests and bishops becoming tyrants, tin-pot dictators over their petty fiefdoms. Where their word is the law, regardless of how it meshes with Catholic doctrine or Catholic tradition.

    That is NOT what God wants.

    But more to the point, +W is correct. "Auxiliary bishops" such as the bishops consecrated in the world of Tradition do NOT have any authority or jurisdiction from the Pope, as a Bishop normally would have in normal times. So they can't *demand* obedience. They can only guide. Nevertheless, the priests who choose to "work for themselves" and reject OBEDIENCE due to their own weakness and pride -- I look down upon them. They should follow the SPIRIT of the law if not the LETTER. The Church clearly intends for a priest to be a Bishop's helper. That's God's will -- why not follow as much of that is possible, even in time of Crisis, even if the bishop you follow has no Jurisdiction? Wouldn't God still be pleased by your obedience and TRYING to keep to normal Church order, which is God's own order and intention for the Church?

    God never intended -- Crisis or not -- for priests to be little Popes in their own chapels and towns where they live. Where they are essentially a dictator, a little king. That is NOT normal or good, and should be avoided IF POSSIBLE -- IF A GOOD BISHOP IS AVAILABLE -- because most priests don't have the charism or "grace of state" to be a bishop or pope. Right?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #27 on: July 10, 2022, 03:32:22 PM »
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  •  tin-pot dictators over their petty fiefdoms

    Or petty Pfeifdoms ...

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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #28 on: July 10, 2022, 04:43:52 PM »
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    Re: Fr. Hewko and Fr. Rafael joined forces?
    « Reply #29 on: July 10, 2022, 05:14:25 PM »
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  • Not sure this is true.  Many times I heard justification of evil from his mouth.
    Me, too.