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Author Topic: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite  (Read 5247 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2021, 07:45:28 AM »
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  • It is rude and selfish to make a general confession when people are standing in line for confession and cant go because you made a 5 minute general confession. Then these poor people who travelled far can’t receive communion.  I don’t blame any priest for being impatient with you.  This happens often at various chapels.  It is sinful to abuse the confessional each week.
    ^^^This, couldn't agree more.

    It is only intuitive to think that confession needs to be, as AA would put it, "a searching, fearless moral inventory", that takes as long as it has to take, but as a practical matter, the rule in a quotidian confessional line needs to be "be brief, be bold, and be gone".  (And a general confession could take far longer than five minutes.)  If you need more time than that, make arrangements with the priest outside of regular confessional hours, which in "flying priest" chapel situations, might be a "big ask", but the point should be clear, don't hog the confessional and keep the people behind you from being able to make their confessions as well.  I've found that modern people, even among traditionalists, don't know how to keep their confessions brief.  I suspect this might be from the pop-culture notion of "confessional as psychiatrist's couch".  Two different things.

    The "long game" solution is more vocations, more priests, and more opportunities to go to confession in the first place.

    And full disclosure, I have never had to avail myself of AA, never had that problem, I hardly ever even take a drink of alcohol, but I have had people close to me whom AA tried to help, one family member, they couldn't reach, he died drunk on his couch.


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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #31 on: October 25, 2021, 09:22:11 AM »
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  • I've been attending an SSPX Chapel for over a year now but only recently did I find out that the priest who has been my confessor in all that time was ordained in the new rite of ordination and was never conditionally reordained by the SSPX. Initially, I had thought he was ordained prior to the changes in the rite of ordination but, that appears to not be the case.

    This Chapel is the only place within a reasonable distance from where I live where I thought I could receive the sacraments validly. Now I'm concerned that I haven't been absolved from the sins that I've confessed for going on a year now. I really have no idea what to do now as there aren't any other options that I know of.

    I'm strongly reconsidering sedevacantism at the moment but, I'm kind of waffling on the subject because I don't want to pick the wrong position and place myself in schism based on either position I take or make a bad confession as a result of that if I were able to find someone to hear it in the future. I'm very distraught that I am unable, at least presently, to find a validly ordained priest who would hear my general confession and don't know what to do in order to solve this problem.

    It's very unfortunate because this priest who I have been seeing as a confessor was very patient and easy to talk to. I don't want to randomly show up to a chapel that I haven't been to before and have different priest that I've never met before that get irritable with me because I want to make a general confession which would likely take a long time. I've had this happen before with two different SSPX priests before (one who was also formerly Novus Ordo but, also, was likely never reordained and another who was likely validly ordained but is promoting the vaccines because Francis says it's good) get angry with me simply because I want to make a good, thorough confession and they evidently felt like I was wasting their time because it took longer than 5 minutes.

    As a result of this, I don't know if I can or should go back to the SSPX. How can anyone know for certain if they're validly receiving the sacraments if they've stopped reordaining priests who come to them from the Novus Ordo?

    I would be very appreciative if anyone could offer some advice on what to do in this situation. I live in the northeastern part of the United States if that is a sufficient yet vague enough description of my geographic location.
    I was told: sacraments require matter, form, and intent.  If you, unknowingly, went to confession with a questionable priest, the fault is not yours and you received the sacrament.  There is no need to re-do your confessions.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #32 on: October 25, 2021, 09:57:13 AM »
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  • I was told: sacraments require matter, form, and intent.  If you, unknowingly, went to confession with a questionable priest, the fault is not yours and you received the sacrament.  There is no need to re-do your confessions.

    Actually, that’s not true:

    If the man was not a priest, the sins are not forgiven in the confessional.

    The Church can supply JURISDICTION to PRIESTS in cases of necessity, common error, etc., but it does not supply the power of ORDERS to LAYMEN.

    Consequently, we’re a layman to put on a cassock and jump into a confessional, nobody’s sins are absolved, despite him using proper form, matter, and intention:

    In addition to these three is required a valid minister.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #33 on: October 25, 2021, 10:01:30 AM »
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  • The question of which traditional group has valid holy orders is a Morton's Fork. Robust arguments abound against validity for each line: the Liénart stigma in the SSPX and its offshoots; the one-handed defect of the Dolanite line; the multifaceted critique of Thục's mental competence; the vitiation of some Duarte Costa lines; the doubtfulness of all Novus-Ordo lines; the threats to validity stemming from inadequately formed vagi who, while perhaps valid themselves, fail to confect the sacrament; undocuмented consecrations based on the testimony of highly conflicted parties, etc., etc. All options are equally undesirable. The only remedy is thoroughgoing research and a final choice that seems to be the least of all evils, one of which is to stay "home alone."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #34 on: October 25, 2021, 10:04:29 AM »
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  • The question of which traditional group has valid holy orders is a Morton's Fork. Robust arguments abound against validity for each line: the Liénart stigma in the SSPX and its offshoots; the one-handed defect of the Dolanite line; the multifaceted critique of Thục's mental competence; the vitiation of some Duarte Costa lines; the doubtfulness of all Novus-Ordo lines; the threats to validity stemming from inadequately formed vagi who, while perhaps valid themselves, fail to confect the sacrament; undocuмented consecrations based on the testimony of highly conflicted parties, etc., etc. All options are equally undesirable. The only remedy is thoroughgoing research and a final choice that seems to be the least of all evils, one of which is to stay "home alone."

    The Lienart argument is totally bogus.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #35 on: October 25, 2021, 11:13:27 AM »
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  • You have Sspx priests and bishops who have been ordained in old rite who raped children.  You have SSPX priests and bishops ordained in old rite and now they are pushing the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr jab.  





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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #36 on: October 25, 2021, 11:30:06 AM »
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  • You have Sspx priests and bishops who have been ordained in old rite who raped children.  You have SSPX priests and bishops ordained in old rite and now they are pushing the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr jab. 

    Can you explain what this has to do with the topic at hand?  And here’s a newsflash: If you’re looking for a group without sinners, you’re never going to find it.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #37 on: October 25, 2021, 12:14:07 PM »
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  • You have Sspx priests and bishops who have been ordained in old rite who raped children.  You have SSPX priests and bishops ordained in old rite and now they are pushing the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr jab. 
    Which SSPX bishops have raped children?  This is the first time I've ever heard this and I don't believe it.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #38 on: October 25, 2021, 01:29:43 PM »
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  • The Lienart argument is totally bogus.

    Why yes, yet it is.  I wonder though why Bishop Kelly has no issues with his own ordination from this Lienart-descended bishop when he has issues with just about everybody else out there who was ever "tainted" by such association?  I also love it how he denounces CMRI for its prior association with an Old Catholic when he considers the NO a non-Catholic sect and he got consecrated by an NO bishop.  Then of course he impugns the mental state of Archbishop Thuc, whereas +Mendez had just emerged from the hospital after a stroke where relatives testify that he didn't recognize them and was completely incoherent.  But ... a side issue.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #39 on: October 25, 2021, 01:31:13 PM »
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  • Can you explain what this has to do with the topic at hand?  And here’s a newsflash: If you’re looking for a group without sinners, you’re never going to find it.

    I'm guessing he was conflating his thoughts, where he meant that the bishops were ordained old Rite but then ordained priests who raped children.  Something like that perhaps.

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #40 on: October 25, 2021, 01:33:38 PM »
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  • The Lienart argument is totally bogus.
    So if a Bishop were to go through with the motions of an ordination and internally decide that he did not want to confer valid orders because he was an infiltrator who wanted to destroy the Church, then the orders would always be valid?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #41 on: October 25, 2021, 01:33:48 PM »
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  • The question of which traditional group has valid holy orders is a Morton's Fork. Robust arguments abound against validity for each line: the Liénart stigma in the SSPX and its offshoots; the one-handed defect of the Dolanite line; the multifaceted critique of Thục's mental competence; the vitiation of some Duarte Costa lines; the doubtfulness of all Novus-Ordo lines; the threats to validity stemming from inadequately formed vagi who, while perhaps valid themselves, fail to confect the sacrament; undocuмented consecrations based on the testimony of highly conflicted parties, etc., etc. All options are equally undesirable. The only remedy is thoroughgoing research and a final choice that seems to be the least of all evils, one of which is to stay "home alone."

    You forgot that the one-handed thing "plagues" the +Williamson line as well, in the mind of Bishop Kelly, since Bishop Williamson was ordained in the same class as Father Dolan.  Of course he ignores any issues with his own +Mendez line.  He's waged a propaganda campaign using negative doubt (whipping the scrupulous up into a frenzy) whereas his adversaries don't play that card against his +Mendez line even though they very well could ... because the latter tend to be more honest.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #42 on: October 25, 2021, 01:34:50 PM »
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  • So if a Bishop were to go through with the motions of an ordination and internally decide that he did not want to confer valid orders because he was an infiltrator who wanted to destroy the Church, then the orders would always be valid?

    Yep.  In performing the ceremony, he was intending to DO what the Church DOES, and therefore validly confected the Sacrament.

    Here's the metaphor I use.  I hold a loaded gun up to someone's head and pull the trigger.  That person dies.  But in my mind I thought "I do not wish for this person to die."  Sorry, but you did intend for that person to die by taking the actions you did.

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #43 on: October 25, 2021, 01:35:23 PM »
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  • I heard someone claim that the SSPX conditionally ordain discreetly, so discreet, nothing online can be found (some priest mentioned on this forum), but a person on another forum was so definite that he was. I thought these sort of things, except in times of persecution, are meant to be done reasonably openly, not in secret.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #44 on: October 25, 2021, 01:37:33 PM »
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  • I heard someone claim that the SSPX conditionally ordain discreetly, so discreet, nothing online can be found (some priest mentioned on this forum), but a person on another forum was so definite that he was. I thought these sort of things, except in times of persecution, are meant to be done reasonably openly, not in secret.

    I don't think they necessarily do it at all NOW.  But back in the day, even in the 1990-timeframe, when NO priests visited, sometimes I was informed by the sacristan that he was setting up the Bishop's chapel for a conditional ordination, but it was kept hush-hush from the general public and even the seminarians ... except the information got leaked to me, since the sacristan happened to be my brother at the time.