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Author Topic: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite  (Read 7174 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2021, 04:34:10 PM »
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  • I always went to NO-ordained priests, sadly. Should I stop and wait for a real traditional priest?

    Unfortunately, we're in a great crisis, and nobody really has the authority to bind your conscience.  If you have come to the conclusion that NO-ordained priests are doubtful, then you should stop going to them and then seek out a validly-ordained priest (whether Traditional or Eastern Rite or elderly/retired and ordained pre-Vatican II).  Surely among those categories, you'd be able to find someone.  Even in the Cleveland area, there are dozens of pre-V2 ordained retired priests either in nursing homes or simply retired at family properties or whatever.  Plus there are Eastern Rites priests all over the place.  So I'm sure you can find some solution.  Of course, with the retired priests, you have to be careful that they're not too mentally far gone, so maybe just give them a call, and if they appear somewhat coherent ... like they understand what a Confession is and what an absolution is, then you'd probably be fine.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #16 on: October 24, 2021, 04:45:55 PM »
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  • It's very unfortunate because this priest who I have been seeing as a confessor was very patient and easy to talk to.

    Indeed, priests have to be cognizant of this.  People are often deterred from making confession to priest who are impatient and seem to haughtily rebuke the penitent.  Probably the best Confessor I had in SSPX who came across that way, and extremely kind, compassionate Confessor ... was Father Daniel Cooper.  Traditional Catholics need more priests who are kind and compassionate, and that has been somewhat lacking over the years.  We need priests where sinners WANT to confess to them rather than being AFRAID to confess.

    I was a seminarian some time ago, and got to a new chapel before the priest did, and I walked into the Sacristy to go put on my surplice, etc.  Well, I didn't know that the priest heard Confessions in that sacristy.  So I walked out and there was a huge line of people waiting.  I found out later that normally the line was very short because the faithful were afraid to confess to that priest, and when they saw me walking in, the line just blew up nearly out the back door.  I felt terrible and wished I could hear all their confessions.  But that episode showed me how many people really did want to confess and unburden their souls, but were simply too afraid to do so.  Also, I'm sure that kind of thing leads to bad confessions among younger children ... when they're afraid of the priest.

    I think that it would be a good idea to have a couple of priests who are very good confessors travel around the country at various chapels.  People would then confess to them when they might be afraid to with their regular priest, and the people wouldn't have to be afraid that these travelling priests would know them and look down on them.

    But, you see, these SSPX superiors don't think about such things, trying to come up with ways to help save souls.  If I were superior, I would take a survey to find three or four priests whom the penitents most like confessing to, and I would designate them as travelling confessors.  They would then take turns flying out to individual chapels, in ADDITION to the regular priests.  They would offer an early-morning low Mass and then would spend the rest of their time in the confessional, even while the main Mass was going on, and they would stay there until finished (even if the priest had to rush off to another Mass).  They would hear confessions, general confessions, and even give spiritual direction.  And don't tell me that SSPX doesn't have 3-4 priests they could spare for this kind of duty.  That's nonsense.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #17 on: October 24, 2021, 04:50:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus 10/24/2021, 4:45:55 PM
    Indeed, priests have to be cognizant of this.  People are often deterred from making confession to priest who are impatient and seem to haughtily rebuke the penitent.  Probably the best Confessor I had in SSPX who came across that way, and extremely kind, compassionate Confessor ... was Father Daniel Cooper.  Traditional Catholics need more priests who are kind and compassionate, and that has been somewhat lacking over the years.  We need priests where sinners WANT to confess to them rather than being AFRAID to confess.

    I was a seminarian some time ago, and got to a new chapel before the priest did, and I walked into the Sacristy to go put on my surplice, etc.  Well, I didn't know that the priest heard Confessions in that sacristy.  So I walked out and there was a huge line of people waiting.  I found out later that normally the line was very short because the faithful were afraid to confess to that priest, and when they saw me walking in, the line just blew up nearly out the back door.  I felt terrible and wished I could hear all their confessions.  But that episode showed me how many people really did want to confess and unburden their souls, but were simply too afraid to do so.  Also, I'm sure that kind of thing leads to bad confessions among younger children ... when they're afraid of the priest.

    I think that it would be a good idea to have a couple of priests who are very good confessors travel around the country at various chapels.  People would then confess to them when they might be afraid to with their regular priest, and the people wouldn't have to be afraid that these travelling priests would know them and look down on them.

    Wow, that's sobering.


    That priest will, unfortunately, have to answer for any soul that was lost due to his impatience, unwillingness to spend time in the confessional, etc.

    Remember how many parish priests were canonized over the past few hundred years? Not many. The Cure of Ars comes to mind.
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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #18 on: October 24, 2021, 04:54:14 PM »
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  • Indeed, priests have to be cognizant of this.  People are often deterred from making confession to priest who are impatient and seem to haughtily rebuke the penitent.  Probably the best Confessor I had in SSPX who came across that way, and extremely kind, compassionate Confessor ... was Father Daniel Cooper.  Traditional Catholics need more priests who are kind and compassionate, and that has been somewhat lacking over the years.  We need priests where sinners WANT to confess to them rather than being AFRAID to confess.
    This. One father once told me that the priest is the "herald of God's Mercy". If the priest humilliate the penitents, scare them and don't give good advices for the faithful, he'll make a poor job. 

    The priests have to be careful and compassionate for their sheep, especially the scrupulous ones. If not, will lead the penitents to despair and fear from the confessionary.

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #19 on: October 24, 2021, 04:56:29 PM »
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  • This. One father once told me that the priest is the "herald of God's Mercy". If the priest humilliate the penitents, scare them and don't give good advices for the faithful, he'll make a poor job.

    The priests have to be careful and compassionate for their sheep, especially the scrupulous ones. If not, will lead the penitents to despair and fear from the confessionary.
    Not only the scrupulous, but the neophytes and those who came back from big sins! He must encourage his faithful.


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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #20 on: October 24, 2021, 06:43:08 PM »
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  • If you follow the probabilism of a St. Alphonsus, just confess the ones you are sure were mortal and not stew over the borderline cases.

    I would just begin the confessions stating that all the numbers are best guesses and not for certain, and then start to rattle them off.

    Well, of course St. Alphonsus abandoned probabilism in favor of aequiprobabilism, which basically says:


    • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]The opinions for and against the existence of a law having equal or nearly equal probabilities, it is permissible to act on the less safe opinion.[/color]
    • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]The opinions for and against the cessation of a law having equal or nearly equal probabilities, it is not permissible to act on the less safe opinion.[/color]
    • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]The safe opinion being certainly more probable than the less safe opinion, it is unlawful to follow the less safe opinion.[/color]

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12441a.htm


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #21 on: October 24, 2021, 06:43:50 PM »
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  • Well, of course St. Alphonsus abandoned probabilism in favor of aequiprobabilism, which basically says:


    • The opinions for and against the existence of a law having equal or nearly equal probabilities, it is permissible to act on the less safe opinion.
    • The opinions for and against the cessation of a law having equal or nearly equal probabilities, it is not permissible to act on the less safe opinion.
    • The safe opinion being certainly more probable than the less safe opinion, it is unlawful to follow the less safe opinion.

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12441a.htm

    That was me ^^^
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #22 on: October 24, 2021, 07:48:29 PM »
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  • I'm' sure you know enough to give an "is it bigger than a breadbox" estimate.  So, for instance, you can say, "Father, I really have no idea how many times, but I would say it's more than (x) and less than (y)."  And that could be ("more than 100 and less than 1000"), so the gap can be large depending on your recollection.  Or else you could say "x times per day" or "x times per week" or "x times per month" over the course of 15 years, or whatever.  I'm sure that a priest wouldn't accept "many times".  That could be 10 or it could be 100,000.  So that doesn't narrow it down enough.  Or just describe it.  One of the biggest things is impure thoughts.  If people are worldly and give into impure thoughts on a regular basis then coming up with a number would be impossible.  Well, just CHARACTERIZE the sin that way.  "I made no attempt to curb impure thoughts over the course of 10 years.  And it may have been 100s or 1000s a day sometimes."  Something like that to give some kind of a picture.  It doesn't have to be mathematically exact, but give the priest some kind of idea.  Or "I committed fornication [many times]."  Is that 10 or is that 10,000 times with 500 different women, half of whom were married (thus making the sin adultery)?  So just be up front with the priest that you don't really know the numbers but come up with some way to characterize the frequency.  Probably breaking it down by "times per day" or "times per week" or "times per month", etc. would be your best bet.
    I remember watching a video of a priest(I believe he was a traditional priest) who said that when making a general confession, if you have trouble coming up with a more exact number, you could say dozens, hundreds, or thousands of times. Anyone have any thoughts on if that would be specific enough? I've also heard the advice of using frequency of said sin committed, such as __ times per week/month for __ years or something similar as Ladislaus mentioned. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #23 on: October 24, 2021, 08:20:42 PM »
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  • I remember watching a video of a priest(I believe he was a traditional priest) who said that when making a general confession, if you have trouble coming up with a more exact number, you could say dozens, hundreds, or thousands of times. Anyone have any thoughts on if that would be specific enough? I've also heard the advice of using frequency of said sin committed, such as __ times per week/month for __ years or something similar as Ladislaus mentioned.

    I think that all that is fine.  You're not required to get the exact number right ... or else the confession is invalid.  You just do the best you can.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #24 on: October 24, 2021, 08:23:54 PM »
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  • That was me ^^^

    Yes and no.  Nevertheless, this is more about the subjectivist aspect, not about the LAW per se, and is also influenced by whether or not the person is scrupulous.  So, for instance, the advice generally given to the scrupulous is only confess those sins you're certain were mortal sins, vs. the advice to the lax would be to confess anything you think MIGHT be a mortal sin.

    But in general, you're only strictly required to confess those sins you're certain were moral.  If you're in doubt, you're not strictly obliged.

    Online TKGS

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #25 on: October 25, 2021, 06:39:56 AM »
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  • I'm starting to see more and more among Traditional priests.  They consider it a burden to hear confessions.  
    I'm wondering where you are seeing this.  The traditional priests I have been in contact with have, over the past couple of years, increase their time in the confessional and have seem to give more sermons about the importance of confession.  If they consider it a burden to hear confessions, they are certainly bearing that burden patiently and without complaint and, in fact, are encouraging the faithful to heap even more burdens upon them.


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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #26 on: October 25, 2021, 07:14:01 AM »
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  • It is rude and selfish to make a general confession when people are standing in line for confession and cant go because you made a 5 minute general confession. Then these poor people who travelled far can’t receive communion.  I don’t blame any priest for being impatient with you.  This happens often at various chapels.  It is sinful to abuse the confessional each week. 

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #27 on: October 25, 2021, 07:21:43 AM »
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  • Are you even trying to repent for your sins?  You are not in a state of grace to judge anyone including a priest.  You need to work on your own sins instead of judging others unless the priest is preaching sin and errors. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #28 on: October 25, 2021, 07:37:00 AM »
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  • I'm wondering where you are seeing this.  The traditional priests I have been in contact with have, over the past couple of years, increase their time in the confessional and have seem to give more sermons about the importance of confession.  If they consider it a burden to hear confessions, they are certainly bearing that burden patiently and without complaint and, in fact, are encouraging the faithful to heap even more burdens upon them.

    Mostly from the younger neo-SSPX priests.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
    « Reply #29 on: October 25, 2021, 07:42:19 AM »
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  • It is rude and selfish to make a general confession when people are standing in line for confession and cant go because you made a 5 minute general confession. Then these poor people who travelled far can’t receive communion.  I don’t blame any priest for being impatient with you.  This happens often at various chapels.  It is sinful to abuse the confessional each week.

    No, a properly done general confession (the whole point of my previous response) doesn't have to take any more time than a regular confession.  Some people abuse the confessional even with regular confession, droning on for 20 minutes about venial sins.  If it weren't for the fact that it would "out" people, perhaps there could be a policy of some kind saying that people with only venial sins to confess should wait until after Mass.  I knew this one lady who went every other day and then spent 15-20 minutes in there.

    Nevertheless, this person TOO is in a situation where if he doesn't confess, then he can't go to Communion, so these he's no different than these others who perhaps can't stay out of mortal sin from one week to the next.  There's no issue with making a relatively short general confession.  Bigger issue is with the people who spent 15-20 minutes in there on venial sins and confusing confession with spiritual direction.  But, honestly, that's on the priest.  Based on what they're talking about, he can and should hurry them up.  To say, however, that 5 minutes is too long is absurd.  You have no idea what's going on in there and whether it warrants 5 minutes or longer.  Sometimes it does.  That's why it's entirely on the priest.

    And that's another part of the issue with the priest zipping in and out of places.  There's little opportunity for actual spiritual direction.  Another reason they should implement the practice of sending out missionary confessors to the chapels around the country.