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Author Topic: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite  (Read 24521 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #125 on: October 26, 2021, 10:42:13 PM »
If you can show me the “docuмented Masonic membership,” I’ll give you $1,000.

I note your response contains bare assertions and no theology (and completely bypasses the quote I provided by Gasparri, for good reason).

I intend to refute you until you go away, Satan.

I could hardly care less if he were proven a Mason and we even found a letter in his persona effects stating that he withheld his intention when ordaining +Lefebvre to the priesthood.  It would still be valid.  I wouldn't have a moment of hesitation about its validity.  Sorry, +Lienart, but you intentionally performed the Rite of the Church, the effect of which is to confer Holy Orders.  I could hardly care less about his mental game or his wishful thinking.

Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #126 on: October 26, 2021, 10:44:31 PM »
I agree.  It's more than just presumed valid.  It IS valid.

I await your proud rebuttals of Alexander VIII, Leo Xiii, StThomas Aquinas, Cardinal Gasparri, Fr. Hunter, etc., etc.


Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #127 on: October 26, 2021, 10:46:10 PM »
I could hardly care less if he were proven a Mason and we even found a letter in his persona effects stating that he withheld his intention when ordaining +Lefebvre to the priesthood.  It would still be valid.  I wouldn't have a moment of hesitation about its validity.  Sorry, +Lienart, but you intentionally performed the Rite of the Church, the effect of which is to confer Holy Orders.  I could hardly care less about his mental game or his wishful thinking.

A sentimental statement refuted by every authority cited in this thread.

Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #128 on: October 26, 2021, 11:06:36 PM »
See previous rebuttal.

I can perform an invalid baptism right now, simply by declaring outwardly “I have no intention to do what the Church does” then perform the form/matter.  I would simply intend to demonstrate how to perform an invalid sacrament, not to do what the Church does.

All the authorities are on my side against you.

I agree such a declaration would invalidate any sacrament performed.

Such a declaration is a public manifestation of your intention, but that is not what we are spilling ink over.

We're talking about an internal intention, contrary to the correct performance of a sacrament, that is not publicly manifested when the sacrament is performed.

I agree with Lad, it doesn't matter what someone wrote in a letter concerning their intention. What matters is the act itself and how it was manifested at that time.


Re: Found out priest was ordained in New Rite
« Reply #129 on: October 27, 2021, 01:26:55 PM »
There seem to be some here who cite obscure cases with no clear references, making sure to use untranslated Latin to make themselves seem clever, which essentially make the cult favouring claim that essentially reads the mind of bishops some trads don't like, and finds their intention wanting. It comes from the same stable as those who invented non una cuм, a horrifying error refuted by looking at an older missal where after the Pope and bishop, the monarch (who was often or always non Catholic, barring one or two deathbed conversions like Charles II). Obviously the ultimate point is that any one who goes to a chapel other than that of the cult leader or similar, goes to hell. The Plinioites who hate Archbishop Lefebvre do the same thing even though they usually go, at best, to diocesan TLM masses, like Attila Sinke Guimares who has such delusions that +Lefebvre had a personal masonic brass band, that +Lienart was obviously a freemason, and other delusions which suggest there is something in the water in Brazil. Who is +Lefebvre compared to holy Plinio de Correa?