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Author Topic: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?  (Read 2560 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
« on: July 29, 2017, 10:37:44 AM »
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  • I can't really say that I attended the Novus Ordo because I was out of the church from 1968 till like 1995, and then I went into the Latin Mass. Nevertheless, the few times that I went to the Novus Ordo at weddings and funerals, I noticed that the mass was in the vernacular, but the priest were from Latin American or from India and it was difficult to near impossible to understand their English. I saw this so often that I came to think it was a punishment of God upon those that wanted the mass in vernacular and all the other shenanigans of the New Mass. 

    Fast forward 20+ years and now I'm seeing SSPX priests being sent here from France and it is difficult to near impossible to understand their English. Moreover, they are bringing with them their local customs and changing just about everything they can. I'm thinking that my parish did something wrong, for this is certainly a punishment. It does not affect me because I am well read and I know the faith, however, anyone new to the faith is not learning anything. I do not see any growth in any of those less knowledgeable in the faith. It seems like the all spiritual growth now depends on the individual and if he wants to learn on his own. 



    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 11:52:16 AM »
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  • I may be wrong, but I've come to think that Americans in general are so dumbed down that they can't comprehend their own tongue with a bit of an accent. It is most especially the white people who complain about accents. Personally, I have almost never had a problem with understanding priests with accents, and I have encountered many, many different foreign priests.
        Yet, it is odd, as people I would expect to understand a certain kind of accent don't... for example, my mother grew up in a family that spoke English and Spanish, but still can't seem to get past certain Hispanic priest's vocal tone, yet I haven't the least problem and don't know any Spanish!

    This is also maybe a part of the reason the Church used to try and give people a priest who was native to them as soon as possible when they began a mission field... Accents can be a real pain sometimes!

    As for these French priest's, someone needs to inform them of the local customs. However, I think I remember reading that it is the customs of the priest that are to be accomodated, in the ceremonies and rituals e.g. Mass.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #2 on: July 30, 2017, 11:14:47 AM »
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  • What kinds of things do these French priests do?
    If you mean what kinds of USA customs do they change:
     
    - they do the dialogue mass
    - they change the low mass postures to the dialogue mass postures
    - they stand for the high mass at the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei
    - they change the statues and paintings and such
    -they move everything in the chapel that is on the right ( stations, statues, paintings) to the left , everything on the right to the left, everything in the front to the back…….
     
    France went big time into “updating”  the Latin Mass long before Vatican II, the USA never did. The French priest are bringing in the French customs that led to Vatican II.
     
    The customs of each country should be respected just as much as any doctrinal tradition. By changing everything to the priests whims, all tradition can be changed without anyone knowing if it is a tradition in another  country or just a personal innovation of the priest. The priest have no right to change the customs of the country that is hosting them. 

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #3 on: July 30, 2017, 12:19:04 PM »
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  • I wouldn't call those 'french customs' but 'french liturgical LIBERALISM'!

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #4 on: July 30, 2017, 01:02:29 PM »
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  • I wouldn't call those 'french customs' but 'french liturgical LIBERALISM'!
    That's how the French have been doing it for nearly a century.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 09:19:50 AM »
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  • Quote
    That's how the French have been doing it for nearly a century.
    Liberalism has been around, in varying degrees, for over a century.  Started in late 1800s, before Pius IX.  Liturgical novelties started way before V2.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 01:20:31 PM »
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  • The French Church has had their problems for a long time.  The Gallican sect was basically trying to form their own Rite in the 1600's, which was supported by King Louis XIV as a means of control over people and trying to control the Church.  You also had the Jansenism Heresy.  I remember reading that after the French Clergy sent a petition to the pope to reconsider his condemnation of the varying degrees Jansenism, the Pope replied with excommunications of the 1 Cardinal, 100+ Bishops, and 3000+ Priest that signed the petition.  That's a sizable number no matter how you slice it.  So this news that the French have done these things for a long time is not really a surprise.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 07:40:06 PM »
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  • I think it depends somewhat on your location. I was raised in a place with a large Filipino population, so when a priest came to my chapel who had a strong Filipino accent, I had no trouble. But many other people, especially the elderly. couldn't understand him at all. For awhile we had a German, and I had to listen carefully to strain the English through his thick accent which I was less experienced with. I think it also depends on whether you are willing to concentrate on listening in order to  gather the knowledge being dispensed; or if you only want to take in the soundbites as you semi-snooze in the pew.


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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #8 on: July 31, 2017, 10:57:42 PM »
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  • I don't think foreign accented priests are a general punishment!  Isn't that a lot to lay on a priest who is simply being obedient in going where he has been told?  Given ample time, most priests' English does improve.  Like everyone else, some are better with languages than others; speaking and understanding.  Perhaps it IS a punishment for certain individuals. "If the shoe fits, wear it." 
     Having to focus on an accented voice can also be a means to more graces if one would ordinarily not give the sermon his full attention.  Personally, I find I'm more attentive to the sermon if it is in one of my secondary languages, not American English.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 01:47:28 AM »
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  • Maybe this could help you to encourage vocations to teh priesthood and religious life from within your own families and communities. 

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 07:10:55 PM »
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  • There are speech tutors who specialize in lessening atrocious accents. Businessmen and actors are some of their prominent clients. It amazes me that someone would bother to learn a second language, but not care if he could be understood by native speakers after going to the effort.  I think it might be because people are too polite to mention the subject. "Excuse me Fr., but you command of the language is so poor that I couldn't understand your advice in the confessional or your homily", makes me wince at the idea. Maybe an anonymous note on the back of a speech therapist's business card in the collection plate?  


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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 10:08:37 PM »
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  • I never had problems understanding any foreign priests.  I feel it is  blessing to have any Priests.  

    The French priests we met while attending SSPX Masses were very kind.  One French priest was visiting the chapel and gave us all St Joseph scapulars.  Very cool. 

    When we visited Florida, there was a French Priest who was down to earth and even had chickens. 


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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 10:17:44 PM »
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  • You should be thankful that you have a Priest.  


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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #13 on: August 02, 2017, 09:10:46 AM »
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  • OP says :  I'm seeing SSPX priests being sent here from France and it is difficult to near impossible to understand their English. Moreover, they are bringing with them their local customs and changing just about everything they can. I'm thinking that my parish did something wrong, for this is certainly a punishment. It does not affect me because I am well read and I know the faith, however, anyone new to the faith is not learning anything. I do not see any growth in any of those less knowledgeable in the faith. It seems like the all spiritual growth now depends on the individual and if he wants to learn on his own. 
    Anonnymous X answered: I never had problems understanding any foreign priests.  I feel it is  blessing to have any Priests. You should be thankful that you have a Priest.  One French priest was visiting the chapel and gave us all St Joseph scapulars.  Very cool…. there was a French Priest who was down to earth and even had chickens. 
     
    1)    Based on the OP, what you are saying is that you understood all the foreign priests that attended your chapel, therefore, you are bringing forward an example which is not relevant to the discussion. The OP is describing a situation where the foreign priest is not understood by the parishioners.
    2)    By responding to the OP by saying that  one should be thankful to have a priest or a friendly “very cool” priest, you are saying that one should be thankful that they have a a priest that they do not understand and that changes all their local customs.
    Notice that the OP is not speaking for himself, for he says “I'm thinking that my parish did something wrong, for this is certainly a punishment. It does not affect me because I am well read and I know the faith, however, anyone new to the faith is not learning anything”. The OP obviously is saying all he has are the sacraments and the mass, and he is fine with that and he is thankful that he has that. The OP is writing for the benefit of the others who do not know the faith as well and who are able to learn it from the priest because they do not understand his English.

    The OP is written for the benefit of the foreign priests and for their parishioners

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    Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
    « Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 09:15:17 AM »
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  • Mass is said in latin so that a priest's accent is not a big deal.  I'm sure it's annoying that you can't understand the sermon or his advice, but you do have mass, which is FAR more important than anything else.