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Author Topic: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!  (Read 22692 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2021, 07:30:24 AM »
To Reply #63. What do you call this then, from the Catechism of His Holiness Pope St. Pius X? "A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire."  https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/catechism-of-st-pius-x-1286

Go on, just declare His Holiness Pope St. Pius X an Invalid Heretical Modernist AntiPope, and be done with it! That'll show everyone.

Ladislaus, your position is reasonable. As distinguished from the Dimonds and what they claim, which even you regard as schismatic for the reason that it condemns Doctors like St. Alphonsus and St. Robert whom the Church has approved, I would say your view is almost acceptable. I could easily be convinced of it upon further study. Some early Church sources do suggest the OT just in limbo were baptized. I do not regard the Augustinian position of SBC today as being even slightly problematic. I see them as allies in the Faith.

God Bless.

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2021, 08:05:24 AM »
Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 07, 2021, 07:30:24 AM
To Reply #63. What do you call this then, from the Catechism of His Holiness Pope St. Pius X? "A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire." https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/catechism-of-st-pius-x-1286

Go on, just declare His Holiness Pope St. Pius X an Invalid Heretical Modernist AntiPope, and be done with it! That'll show everyone.

Ladislaus, your position is reasonable. As distinguished from the Dimonds and what they claim, which even you regard as schismatic for the reason that it condemns Doctors like St. Alphonsus and St. Robert whom the Church has approved, I would say your view is almost acceptable. I could easily be convinced of it upon further study. Some early Church sources do suggest the OT just in limbo were baptized. I do not regard the Augustinian position of SBC today as being even slightly problematic. I see them as allies in the Faith.

God Bless.
That's not from Trent's catechism, and it was certainly never taught by the church, not at Trent nor at any other Council of the Church.

Aside from that fact, the absence of anything equals nothing at all, so the absence of baptism is nothing at all, which means that nothing at all is supplied by baptism of blood or desire - and that is truth.
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Änσnymσus

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2021, 08:15:12 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2021, 07:23:36 AM
I agree with everything else but this.  Trent simply stated that justification cannot happen without the desire for it.
You are misquoting Trent.

Trent actually says that justification cannot happen *with* the desire thereof:

"And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written..."
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Änσnymσus

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2021, 08:26:08 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2021, 04:40:27 AM
If the Church hasn’t allowed BoD ...

The Church has not only not allowed, but most strictly forbidden to teach, preach, or believe ...


Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2021, 04:40:27 AM
If the Church hasn’t allowed BoD, how do you explain the canonization of St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Alphonsus, both of whom taught BoD?

Vincent of Lérins says in his Commonitory that God allows for errors in the teachings of Fathers, Doctors, etc. to try people, to make sure they love truth more than men.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2021, 08:33:45 AM »
Quote from: Änσnymσus on May 07, 2021, 08:26:08 AM
The Church has not only not allowed, but most strictly forbidden to teach, preach, or believe ...


Vincent of Lérins says in his Commonitory that God allows for errors in the teachings of Fathers, Doctors, etc. to try people, to make sure they love truth more than men.

I agree with St Vincent that God allowed BoD speculation because it has led ultimately to this testing of faith (in addition to a few other things like evolution).

I have not seen any proof that the Church has forbidden speculation regarding Baptism of Desire.  What is the proof for your assertion?
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