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Author Topic: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!  (Read 21800 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #145 on: May 10, 2021, 12:27:02 PM »
My position is that there can be a baptism of desire, loosely speaking, that can justify, but which does not suffice for salvation.  I found lots of Patristic evidence which suggests that the Fathers believed that, while martyrdom and desire/intent/will ("piety and zeal" as St. Ambrose calls it) can "wash", i.e. remit sin, but that they cannot crown or give "glory" (i.e. allow the reception of the beatific vision and therefore salvation).  I find this to be the most consistent position to address all the issues on every side and it matches what the Fathers wrote about.

https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/patristic-support-for-ladilausian-soteriology
But regardless of what the fathers opined, Trent spoke definitively on the matter. Does this mean or does this not mean that "Rome has spoken, the case is closed?" ("Roma locuta; causa finita est”)

Speaking of justification as regards specifically the sacrament of baptism, Trent sites John 3:5 is to be understood as it is written.

Then in one of the canons speaking of *all* the sacraments, Trent condemns the idea of justification through faith alone - which is what a BOD / BOB is. Trent condemns saying that without the sacraments, or without the desire thereof that men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification.   

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #146 on: May 10, 2021, 12:38:16 PM »
My position is that there can be a baptism of desire, loosely speaking, that can justify, but which does not suffice for salvation.  I found lots of Patristic evidence which suggests that the Fathers believed that, while martyrdom and desire/intent/will ("piety and zeal" as St. Ambrose calls it) can "wash", i.e. remit sin, but that they cannot crown or give "glory" (i.e. allow the reception of the beatific vision and therefore salvation).  I find this to be the most consistent position to address all the issues on every side and it matches what the Fathers wrote about.

https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/patristic-support-for-ladilausian-soteriology
Obviously, you did not understand what you read.
Please quote any of the Fathers declaring that those who die in a state of Grace are damned.
That’s idiotic.


Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #147 on: May 10, 2021, 12:50:11 PM »
Obviously, you did not understand what you read.
Please quote any of the Fathers declaring that those who die in a state of Grace are damned.
That’s idiotic.
Exactly! Wondering why even the most anti baptism of desire people still want to crack open that door.  It's closed.  Baptism is the door.  

Online Ladislaus

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Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #148 on: May 10, 2021, 12:50:24 PM »
Obviously, you did not understand what you read.
Please quote any of the Fathers declaring that those who die in a state of Grace are damned.
That’s idiotic.

I never said that they are damned.  You obviously didn't read anything in that link before running your virtual mouth.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Feeneyites Are Everywhere!
« Reply #149 on: May 10, 2021, 09:00:54 PM »
I never said that they are damned.  You obviously didn't read anything in that link before running your virtual mouth.
So would they be in the Limbo of the Fathers?