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Author Topic: Feast of the Annunciation  (Read 1898 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Feast of the Annunciation
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2022, 01:09:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 01:03:45 PM
    I did, and I got one clear answer saying you can and virtually no clear answer from tradland
    That's because it depends on whether you follow the NO regs or the earlier rules. Welcome to the jungle.
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #16 on: March 25, 2022, 01:21:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on Today at 01:02:15 PM
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    Ummm....grow up and take responsibility. YOU could have bothered to research it YOURSELF.


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    I did, and I got one clear answer saying you can and virtually no clear answer from tradland

    It seems that you received two very clear answers saying that though the Annunciation is a Feast of the 1st class and white vestments are prescribed, as this year it falls on a Friday during Lent the fast and abstinence is still observed.  Stubborn cited Canon Law and I provided a citation from the March 20th bulletin of a traditional chapel, where the priest would have consulted the Ordo when the Mass schedule for the following week was put into the bulletin.

    When in doubt the safest course would be to not assume a dispensation.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #17 on: March 25, 2022, 02:01:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: moneil on March 25, 2022, 01:21:23 PM
    Quote from: Änσnymσus on Today at 01:02:15 PM

    It seems that you received two very clear answers saying that though the Annunciation is a Feast of the 1st class and white vestments are prescribed, as this year it falls on a Friday during Lent the fast and abstinence is still observed.  Stubborn cited Canon Law and I provided a citation from the March 20th bulletin of a traditional chapel, where the priest would have consulted the Ordo when the Mass schedule for the following week was put into the bulletin.

    When in doubt the safest course would be to not assume a dispensation.
    As anon stated above, it has to do with which version of Canon law you adhere to. In this case, at worst, one would sin venially out of ignorance. And even then, there's question of whether there's sin at all when the apparent Church offers dispensation according to 1983 Canon law, while those observing 1917 have no dispensation.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #18 on: March 25, 2022, 02:36:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 25, 2022, 02:01:11 PM
    As anon stated above, it has to do with which version of Canon law you adhere to. In this case, at worst, one would sin venially out of ignorance. And even then, there's question of whether there's sin at all when the apparent Church offers dispensation according to 1983 Canon law, while those observing 1917 have no dispensation.
    As the question was asked on a traditionalist Catholic forum and given the generally well-known attitude of this forum toward the councilor church and the 1983 Code of Canon Law, one would assume that the OP was asking what the traditional discipline would be.  I can just look at my parish calendar (I realize that it is not politically correct here to have a parish calendar, as opposed to a traditional chapel calendar) and know that the abstinence is dispensed today following "post VII norms" (for lack of a better phrase), as there is no fish symbol.  Many of my acquaintance, and myself, will continue to abstain.  Some will also continue to fast if that is part of their Lenten discipline.

    I do believe that it was well docuмented from actual sources that the traditional discipline is to abstain, and to fast for those healthy and in the appropriate age range), even though today is a first-class feast with white vestments.  Those who opinioned that neither abstinence nor fasting is required today offered no source or justification for their opinion. 
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #19 on: March 25, 2022, 02:41:28 PM »
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    • As the question was asked on a traditionalist Catholic forum and given the generally well-known attitude of this forum toward the councilor church and the 1983 Code of Canon Law, one would assume that the OP was asking what the traditional discipline would be.  I can just look at my parish calendar (I realize that it is not politically correct here to have a parish calendar, as opposed to a traditional chapel calendar) and know that the abstinence is dispensed today following "post VII norms" (for lack of a better phrase), as there is no fish symbol.  Many of my acquaintance, and myself, will continue to abstain.  Some will also continue to fast if that is part of their Lenten discipline.

    I do believe that it was well docuмented from actual sources that the traditional discipline is to abstain, and to fast for those healthy and in the appropriate age range), even though today is a first-class feast with white vestments.  Those who opinioned that neither abstinence nor fasting is required today offered no source or justification for their opinion. 
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #20 on: March 25, 2022, 02:50:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on March 25, 2022, 11:57:28 AM
    Where did you get this from?

    Canon Law is:"Feasts of precept" are Holy Days of Obligation no? The Annunciation is not a Holy Day of Obligation and happens during Lent.

    "It is not a Holy Day of Obligation so we fast and eat no meat on the feast of the Annunciation." Is the correct answer.
    https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/03/19/do-catholics-need-abstain-meat-saint-josephs-day-feast-day/4715139001/

    • Canon 1251:  Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #21 on: March 25, 2022, 02:51:04 PM »
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #22 on: March 25, 2022, 02:52:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 12:59:46 PM
    Great so now I committed a sin because no one is clear about this.thanks guys :facepalm:
    You did not commit a sin because you need matter, form and intent.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #23 on: March 25, 2022, 02:53:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 25, 2022, 02:01:11 PM
    As anon stated above, it has to do with which version of Canon law you adhere to. In this case, at worst, one would sin venially out of ignorance. And even then, there's question of whether there's sin at all when the apparent Church offers dispensation according to 1983 Canon law, while those observing 1917 have no dispensation.
    Nope.  No intent to sin means no sin.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #24 on: March 25, 2022, 02:56:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 02:53:52 PM
    Nope.  No intent to sin means no sin.
    Thank goodness for that! All NOers are safe :facepalm:
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #25 on: March 25, 2022, 03:00:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 02:56:33 PM
    Thank goodness for that! All NOers are safe :facepalm:
    :laugh1:
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #26 on: March 25, 2022, 03:42:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 02:56:33 PM
    Thank goodness for that! All NOers are safe :facepalm:
    Haha yeah! We're so much more righteous and holy than them!! :laugh1:
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #27 on: March 25, 2022, 03:55:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 24, 2022, 10:46:13 PM
    We do not have to fast or abstain tomorrow, correct?
    Sedevacantists do, at least in the USA. https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/pdf/calendar-march-2022.pdf
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #28 on: March 25, 2022, 03:57:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
    Sedevacantists do, at least in the USA. https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/pdf/calendar-march-2022.pdf
    Sorry, I meant that as a link. I wish we could edit our own anonymous replies.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Feast of the Annunciation
    « Reply #29 on: March 25, 2022, 04:16:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 25, 2022, 02:52:31 PM
    You did not commit a sin because you need matter, form and intent.
    I think that you are mistakenly conflating what is necessary for the validity of a Sacrament with the requisites to being guilty of committing a mortal sin.

    Sacramental validity: valid minister, proper matter, proper form, and intent.

    Mortal sin: grave matter, knowledge, and full consent.
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