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Author Topic: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki  (Read 8476 times)

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Offline Marulus Fidelis

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Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2023, 09:41:34 AM »
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  • The constitution of the Church is hierarchical, and this is of divine positive law.

    A priest or bishop finding himself independent because he got kicked out of his liberal congregation is one thing, but ordaining and consecrating priests and bishops to be independent quite another. 

    It’s the protestantization of tradition, and against the Church.
    An SSPX priest is as independent as any other, he just chose what kind of independence he wants.

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #61 on: July 22, 2023, 11:29:57 AM »
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  • True. Especially the American driven Asia direction of the SSPX .....

    Do you have some kind of animosity toward Americans? :facepalm:


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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #62 on: July 22, 2023, 11:31:20 AM »
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  • An SSPX priest is as independent as any other, he just chose what kind of independence he wants.

    As far as I know all of them have to obey their respective superiors.

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #63 on: July 22, 2023, 02:06:27 PM »
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  • As far as I know all of them have to obey their respective superiors.
    Yeah, independent superiors which they chose for themselves.

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #64 on: July 22, 2023, 08:33:47 PM »
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  • So many trads have this weird fixation on the need for structures in the resistance. If there is a need for clerical structures, then it is because some clerics need a community or the support of colleagues in order to morally and spiritually thrive.

    But many keep repeating bovinely that the need for structure stems from the hierarchical nature of the Church. Priests who commit a disorder against this divinely-constituted hierarchy are labelled as "independent." The problem is that a disorder committed against the unity and hierarchy of the Church is a specific sin that has existed forever. This sin is not called "independence," it is called schism. But obviously, were we to employ the proper terms for these things, we would immediately see how fantastical our notions are.

    So, when a criticism is made of a particular priest for being "independent," we should actually call them schismatic. For that is what they are if they act in a manner detrimental to the unity and hierarchy of the Catholic Church. 

    I have heard for example various criticisms of Fr. Morgan over the years for not being a member a congregation. If he is acting incorrectly by not doing so, then he is, at some level, a schismatic. But who could possibly say such of thing of this priest? No one, which is precisely why we resort to evasive language. Our erroneous ideas have to be couched in reasonable-sounding rhetoric, otherwise people would realize that what we say is utterly wrong.

    The other thing to point out is that being a member of a Resistance congregation does nothing to prove that one is not "independent" or schismatic. The bp members of congregations: do they have superiors? Or are they a law until themselves? Were the statutes of their communities approved by any competent authority? Or do they do exactly what everyone else does, which is decide in their kitchen what their apostolate will be? 

    If I were a wicked man, I would suspect that resistance clerics who harp incessantly on "independence" have the ulterior motive of wanting to the swell the ranks of their respective congregations. This, of course, I am not. I have laboured fruitfully for many, many years in the spiritual life and I now enjoy a transformative union with Our Lord; these human considerations don't occur to me, only to my friends.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #65 on: July 22, 2023, 08:58:47 PM »
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  • I have laboured fruitfully for many, many years in the spiritual life and I now enjoy a transformative union with Our Lord; these human considerations don't occur to me, only to my friends.
    .


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    Re: Picture of Bishop Williamson and Bishop Michal Stobnicki
    « Reply #66 on: July 22, 2023, 09:14:09 PM »
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    transformative union
    They're like the Teamsters and the AFL-CIO, Yeti. ;)