Author Topic: Father Gregory Hesse (Read 26606 times)

Änσnymσus · « **on:** January 28, 2014, 07:43:19 PM »

What do you think about Father Gregory Hesse? I have recently been watching videos of him on the internet. He was not a member of the SSPX but he supported them in the videos I watched. Do you know anything about him?

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2014, 11:58:48 PM »

He was born in 1953 in Vienna, his uncle being a Prelate and Pastor of St. Rochus Church in the same city.
In 1976 he decided to become a priest and studied at the Angelicuм in Rome, taking doctoral degrees in theology and canon law.
In 1981 he was ordained in the new Rite of Ordination by Archbishop Aurelio Sabattani in St. Peter's Basilica. Soon, he solely celebrated in the Tridentine Rite himself.

Sometime later he was the secretary of the famous Cardinal Alfons Maria Stickler and worked in the Vatican Secret Archives.

In 1991, he left Rome and became independent. He was associated with "actio spes unica" of Fr. Milch who was the most outspoken German traditionalist until his murder in 1987. The latter organization was and is working together with the SSPX as was Fr. Hesse.
He died in 2006.

Fr. Gregorius Hesse was certainly a colourful, interesting, intelligent and humorous person. Personally, I find many of his opinions untenable and some of his comments downright offensive to pious ears. Still, I would love to find out where he got his ideas from - but I missed my chance.

I am sure most people on this forum have a much more positive view on him.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2014, 11:59:58 PM »

I like him. I watch every video put out on him. To bad that he died
in January 2006, If he would have lived, he could have contributed a
whole lot more.
Pope Francis may have retaliated by taking away his Monsignor hat.

SoldierOfChrist · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2014, 12:25:47 AM »

He's awesome. He appeals to the intellectual types. If you are the type who likes to turn over every stone and look at it from every angle, you will get something out of his talks.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2014, 04:00:16 AM »

Quote from: Guest

Pope Francis may have retaliated by taking away his Monsignor hat.

As far as I know, he never became a Monsignor. He said himself that he would be a Monsignor right now, becoming a Bishop etc. would he have stayed in Rome.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2014, 06:23:07 AM »

did he write any books?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2014, 08:43:24 AM »

His explanations of the crisis were always really goofy.

For instance, he argued that the new rite of orders was valid because, being a schismatic rite, it did not have to reflect the form given in Mystici Corporis in order to be valid.

In other words, so long as you create a new sect for your sacraments, they can be valid. You can change the words of the consecration to "this is my dog, this is my cat" as long as you create a new religion first.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2014, 10:09:53 AM »

I didn't care for him at all, he was rude, condescending, and an alcoholic. His public support for the new rite of Episcopal Consecration with regard to Stickler was nothing more than an egotistical exercise of an intellectual bully.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2014, 10:29:12 AM »

I find him to be as I would find any other man. He has his speciality and he has his faults.
For the most part, I like him and appreciate his work.
He's Austrian, so he has an odd sense of humor as compared to Americans dry wit.
IIRC, he contributed to The Devil's Final Battle as well as writing several articles on papal infallibility and the problems with the language of the Vatican II docuмents being misleading. Because he was a canon lawyer, he was able to explain how this language has been interpreted to the detriment of catholics worldwide, in an easily understood way. I found him very helpful in understanding the case for tradition and the Latin Mass.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2014, 11:42:46 AM »

Quote from: Guest

His explanations of the crisis were always really goofy.

For instance, he argued that the new rite of orders was valid because, being a schismatic rite, it did not have to reflect the form given in Mystici Corporis in order to be valid.

In other words, so long as you create a new sect for your sacraments, they can be valid. You can change the words of the consecration to "this is my dog, this is my cat" as long as you create a new religion first.

What's "goofy" is your apparent ignorance of what constitutes proper matter in a Sacrament.

Do you agree, as the Church has always held, that the Sacraments of the Eastern Schismatics are valid, despite sometimes very different formulations?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2014, 11:46:54 AM »

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest
His explanations of the crisis were always really goofy.

For instance, he argued that the new rite of orders was valid because, being a schismatic rite, it did not have to reflect the form given in Mystici Corporis in order to be valid.

In other words, so long as you create a new sect for your sacraments, they can be valid. You can change the words of the consecration to "this is my dog, this is my cat" as long as you create a new religion first.

What's "goofy" is your apparent ignorance of what constitutes proper matter in a Sacrament.

Do you agree, as the Church has always held, that the Sacraments of the Eastern Schismatics are valid, despite sometimes very different formulations?

Yes, but only in the case where proper matter and form were still present. The problem with the NREC is a defect of form, which can't be glossed over by saying its schismatic.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2014, 11:49:56 AM »

Quote from: Guest

I didn't care for him at all, he was rude, condescending, and an alcoholic. His public support for the new rite of Episcopal Consecration with regard to Stickler was nothing more than an egotistical exercise of an intellectual bully.

Fr Hesse liked his wine. So what? Are you some kind of prod puritan?

He also didn't suffer fools gladly, which endeared him to me, but (apparently) not to you. Why? Does it wound your pride to have to admit that such a formidably learned theologian and canon lawyer might know more about these subjects than you?

To hell with these calumnies: Requiescat in Pace, Pater.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2014, 11:52:42 AM »

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest
Quote from: Guest
His explanations of the crisis were always really goofy.

For instance, he argued that the new rite of orders was valid because, being a schismatic rite, it did not have to reflect the form given in Mystici Corporis in order to be valid.

In other words, so long as you create a new sect for your sacraments, they can be valid. You can change the words of the consecration to "this is my dog, this is my cat" as long as you create a new religion first.

What's "goofy" is your apparent ignorance of what constitutes proper matter in a Sacrament.

Do you agree, as the Church has always held, that the Sacraments of the Eastern Schismatics are valid, despite sometimes very different formulations?

Yes, but only in the case where proper matter and form were still present. The problem with the NREC is a defect of form, which can't be glossed over by saying its schismatic.

Bread and Wine are proper matter. "This is my Body" and "This is the Chalice of my Blood" is proper form.

"This is my dog / This is my cat" is an asinine and impiously flippant hyperbole to dare to engage in on such a grave subject.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2014, 11:53:19 AM »

A sacrament requires valid form and matter n matter WHO is performing it. If one of these is absent, it doesn't become valid just because the rite is schismatic and not under the government of the Church. This was essentially Hesses argument. He did not address the ACTUAL defect in the rite.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2014, 11:58:53 AM »

Embedding not working, sorry:

Youtube:

Novus Ordo Sacraments are Valid - Fr. Gregory Hesse S.T.D. J.C.D

Author Topic: Father Gregory Hesse (Read 26606 times)

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