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Author Topic: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY  (Read 7301 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2024, 06:08:54 PM »
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    provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent.
    Everyone loves to just ignore this part.

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #31 on: January 24, 2024, 06:19:32 PM »
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    at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics
    The new mass is not a ‘non-catholic’ service; it’s more like a schismatic sect or an orthodox mass.  It’s not in the same classification as a Protestant service, because the new mass actually proclaims to be catholic.  


    It’s funny how the vast majority of Traditional clerics/laity will NOT condemn the new mass 100% and will NOT forbid attendance at it, due to the possibility that it could be valid.  

    Yet, when it comes to weddings/funerals, these same clerics/laity will say “Oh, yes, the new mass is 100% non-catholic.  So I can attend passively.”

    The hypocrisy is outstanding!


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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #32 on: January 24, 2024, 06:48:44 PM »
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    provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent.

    Everyone loves to just ignore this part.

    It's hard for me to understand how a stable person sitting in the back praying their Rosary is going to be perverted.

    It's also hard for me to understand how anyone who is reasonably stable would be scandalized by that action either. There is such a thing as "taking scandal" though. A malicious ploy of the Pharisees.

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #33 on: January 24, 2024, 07:47:27 PM »
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  • It’s scandalous to other Trads who think the new mass is a sin.  It’s also scandalous to the novus ordo people, who by your attendance, can think/be tempted to think:  “Oh, I know that person, and they go to the Latin mass.  If they are here, then the new mass must not be as bad as people say.”

    There are various degrees and types of scandal, which is a type of sin of bad example.  Attending the new mass gives all kinds of bad examples to others.  Even if you sit in the back.

    Because if you truly understood how offensive to God it was, you wouldn’t be anywhere near the parking lot.  

    Protestant services, on the other hand, don’t pretend to be catholic, don’t mimic sacraments and don’t have blasphemy/Sacrileges as part of their service.  

    Offline Merry

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #34 on: January 24, 2024, 08:31:57 PM »
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  • Pius X wasn't dealing with the New Mass.  It hadn't been "invented" yet.  Indeed, it would never have seen the light of day under his Pontificate.
    He condemned Modernism - which is the New Mass in spades.

    As for Benedict - ha - he helped invent the thing.  No help there.  What's wrong with you people who don't get angry, almost to sickness, at this blasphemous effrontery called the New Mass - in any of its incarnations?? You must not know what the REAL Mass is!  You otherwise wouldn't tolerate being around its ape-sacrilege.  Who sticks up for the New Mass anyway?  Get Catholic!  
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #35 on: January 24, 2024, 09:06:31 PM »
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  • Everyone loves to just ignore this part.

    BS.  I addressed it up front, indicating that there's no such danger because everyone knows that people attend funerals and weddings for social reasons, and not necessarily to participate in the religious aspect of what's taking place.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #36 on: January 24, 2024, 09:07:31 PM »
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  • The new mass is not a ‘non-catholic’ service; it’s more like a schismatic sect or an orthodox mass.  It’s not in the same classification as a Protestant service, because the new mass actually proclaims to be catholic. 


    It’s funny how the vast majority of Traditional clerics/laity will NOT condemn the new mass 100% and will NOT forbid attendance at it, due to the possibility that it could be valid. 

    Yet, when it comes to weddings/funerals, these same clerics/laity will say “Oh, yes, the new mass is 100% non-catholic.  So I can attend passively.”

    The hypocrisy is outstanding!

    This has to be the dumbest post I've seen here in a long time, and this is the second time you've posted this.  Who are you anyway, anonymous coward?  Put your name to these absurd opinions.

    It's precisely because it's "not in the same classification as a Protestant service" that it's even more unclear about whether attendance might be permitted.  Church has never authoritatively ruled on its status, and the Conciliars profess the Catholic faith.  You're pretending that it's somehow in a "worse" state because it hasn't been condemned officially by the Church.

    This is the kind of nonsense that makes many Trads look like adherents of a cult.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #37 on: January 24, 2024, 09:14:08 PM »
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  • Everyone loves to just ignore this part.


    It's hard for me to understand how a stable person sitting in the back praying their Rosary is going to be perverted.

    It's also hard for me to understand how anyone who is reasonably stable would be scandalized by that action either. There is such a thing as "taking scandal" though. A malicious ploy of the Pharisees.

    There's almost zero chance of either.  Attending funerals to pay respects, for social reasons, is so widely practiced that no one is going to infer from your attendance that you're an adherent of whatever religion is performing the funera service.  Agreed on the perversion as well.  If someone would be "perverted" by witnessing an isolated NOM his faith is weak indeed.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #38 on: January 24, 2024, 09:16:21 PM »
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  • It’s scandalous to other Trads who think the new mass is a sin.

    That's not scandal.  You don't even know the definition of the term.  If some other Trad were to swoon while saying "oh, I do declare" ... that's not scandal.  And 99% of all Trads, as another poster said, know that it's permitted to passively attend a wedding or funeral with a NOM.  This is absurd.  Still too cowardly to de-cloak from anonymity?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #39 on: January 24, 2024, 09:17:25 PM »
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  • It’s also scandalous to the novus ordo people, who by your attendance, can think/be tempted to think:  “Oh, I know that person, and they go to the Latin mass.  If they are here, then the new mass must not be as bad as people say.”

    Ridiculous.  EVERYONE knows that people attend funeral services at non-Catholic churches without construing it as their endorsement of wherever it's being held.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #40 on: January 24, 2024, 09:18:53 PM »
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  • Who sticks up for the New Mass anyway?  Get Catholic! 

    Are you nuts or just a slanderer?  Nobody here is "sticking up for the New Mass", just affirming that passive attendance is permitted at weddings and funerals, as nearly all Traditional priests agree.  And your calumny in claiming that people affirming this are not Catholic, and need to "Get Catholic!" is over the top.

    I'm getting really fed up with the Pharisaical nonsense from some Trads here who have messed-up cult-like mentalities.


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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #41 on: January 24, 2024, 10:00:55 PM »
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  • There's almost zero chance of either.  Attending funerals to pay respects, for social reasons, is so widely practiced that no one is going to infer from your attendance that you're an adherent of whatever religion is performing the funeral service.  Agreed on the perversion as well.  If someone would be "perverted" by witnessing an isolated NOM his faith is weak indeed.
    There's a deeper point that seems to be lost in all this as well. Showing up and expressing sincere sympathy to one who is grieving might just be the act of Charity that opens them up to conversion. The more that I have considered this, and tried to practice it, the more I see of our Lord's wisdom in this seemingly small act. 

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #42 on: January 24, 2024, 11:05:43 PM »
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  • So let me understand the distinction here: the man in the back row of the Novus Ordo funeral praying his rosary is "passively" attending, whereas the man in the front row praying his rosary is "actively" attending?  It is O.K. morally to passively attend, but not O.K. to actively attend?  Who is to distinguish between active and passive attendance?  

    The popes are perfectly free to give us their opinions on active and passive attendance at either non-Catholic or supposedly Catholic ceremonies, but at the end of the day, it is moral advice, and the pope in his private capacity is just as fallible as any other theologian.  Aside from the pope/Holy Office saying a Catholic "must" or "must not" perform an action, anything else is, once again, moral advice, which may be correct or incorrect.   

    As for me, I told my family many years ago that I would not attend weddings or funerals if there is a Novus Ordo Mass involved; that move has made my life wonderful, because I choose not to participate in that Novus Ordo nonsense anyway.  

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #43 on: January 24, 2024, 11:24:07 PM »
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  • So let me understand the distinction here: the man in the back row of the Novus Ordo funeral praying his rosary is "passively" attending, whereas the man in the front row praying his rosary is "actively" attending?  It is O.K. morally to passively attend, but not O.K. to actively attend?  Who is to distinguish between active and passive attendance?
     
    Are you joining in the prayers that are part of the service? The gestures; i.e. standing, kneeling, etc? Rocket science it is not.

    The popes are perfectly free to give us their opinions on active and passive attendance at either non-Catholic or supposedly Catholic ceremonies, but at the end of the day, it is moral advice, and the pope in his private capacity is just as fallible as any other theologian.  Aside from the pope/Holy Office saying a Catholic "must" or "must not" perform an action, anything else is, once again, moral advice, which may be correct or incorrect. 

    Some were imputing mortal sin to those who choose to follow the Pope's "advice".

    As for me, I told my family many years ago that I would not attend weddings or funerals if there is a Novus Ordo Mass involved; that move has made my life wonderful, because I choose not to participate in that Novus Ordo nonsense anyway. 

    You are perfectly free to make that choice. However, some think that they are not their own and should at least try to do the Lord's will, not seek their own comfort.

     15 For I have given you an example, that as I have done to you, so you do also.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Father Bitzer and Our Lady of the Pillar Chapel Louisville, KY
    « Reply #44 on: January 25, 2024, 04:40:27 AM »
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  • Pius X wasn't dealing with the New Mass.  It hadn't been "invented" yet.  Indeed, it would never have seen the light of day under his Pontificate.
    He condemned Modernism - which is the New Mass in spades.

    As for Benedict - ha - he helped invent the thing.  No help there.  What's wrong with you people who don't get angry, almost to sickness, at this blasphemous effrontery called the New Mass - in any of its incarnations?? You must not know what the REAL Mass is!  You otherwise wouldn't tolerate being around its ape-sacrilege.  Who sticks up for the New Mass anyway?  Get Catholic! 
    Well said Merry! Excellent post!
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse