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Author Topic: Holy Saturday fast time?  (Read 1492 times)

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Offline Giovanni Berto

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Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2024, 04:08:06 PM »
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  • Precisely.  It's clear that in the early Church, the Vigils went all night and culminated in the Mass of the Feast Day at dawn.  In fact, the term itself generally refers to a "night" watch, and the imagery/symbolism of the entire Vigil centers on the light dispelling the darkness.  With the Holy Saturday custom, people are going around by noon on Saturday wishing one another "Happy Easter" 24 hours after Good Friday.  Our Lord rose on the THIRD day, not the second.

    This is all pertinent, but we know that the early Church argument was also used to structure the Novus Ordo mass. It sounds dangerous to me to resurrect long abandoned customs.

    Anyway, do we know why it was changed from night to morning? That would be an interesting information to have.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #31 on: March 30, 2024, 04:12:43 PM »
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  • This is all pertinent, but we know that the early Church argument was also used to structure the Novus Ordo mass. It sounds dangerous to me to resurrect long abandoned customs.

    Anyway, do we know why it was changed from night to morning? That would be an interesting information to have.

    Sure, but we have to distinguish the inherent nature of various changes and the context of the Novus Ordo.  There were some changes that were not inherently bad, but were nevertheless put out there with the motive of conditioning the faithful to begin accepting change.  St. Pius X largely overhauled the Divine Office.  If anything, the Novus Ordo went in the opposite direction where they approved Saturday Vigil Masses in general as effectively being the Sunday Mass, and of course many Novus Ordo Easter Vigils conclude well before midnight.


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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #32 on: March 30, 2024, 04:24:17 PM »
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  • A Priest does the 10 pm service followed by Midnight Mass, maybe gets to go to sleep at 2:00-ish to then be prompt in offering an early Mass on Easter Sunday…a lot to ask.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #33 on: March 30, 2024, 04:51:02 PM »
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  • A Priest does the 10 pm service followed by Midnight Mass, maybe gets to go to sleep at 2:00-ish to then be prompt in offering an early Mass on Easter Sunday…a lot to ask. 

    Same thing happens for Christmas midnight Mass.  Generally you'd have different priests offering the two different Masses (Easter Vigil and first / early Easter Mass), and the same division would happen at Christmas.  Of course, these days you have single Traditional priests at many chapels, so it is difficult, but I knew of one Traditional priest who performed just the Vigil part of the Mass after dark on Saturday, especially when he got older, without the Easter Mass that immediately follows it.  Or the Easter Mass could be pushed to midnight, making it very similar to a midnight Christmas Mass.  Or it could just begin after dark on Saturday night rather than waiting for just before midnight.  It would be worked out with the right combination of rules/regulations.

    Father Adrian Fortescue:
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    The first thing to understand about the service of Holy Saturday morning is that it was all composed to be held during the night between Saturday and Sunday. This is the most conspicuous case of the way services so often are pushed back in time. Gradual development first drove it back to the evening before, then to the afternoon, and now finally we keep it on Saturday morning. […] In the West, it must soon have seemed strange to sing Mass in the afternoon; so, once the original hour was changed, the time would soon become the morning rather than the evening of Saturday.

    Father Herbert Thurston (d. 1939):
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    It is difficult to persuade oneself at 8:00AM on Saturday morning that the sun has already set, that our watch is nearly over, that more than 24 hours have elapsed since our Blessed Lord was laid in the Tomb. That is, however, the effort of the imagination which the Church requires us to make. Of course, originally the service did not begin until the evening. Even as late as the 9th or 10th century it is expressly stipulated by liturgical writers that the Gloria in excelsis should not be sung until the stars had begun to appear, while in primitive times it would seem that the service was later still, and lasted almost until dawn on Easter Sunday.

    account of St. John Gualbert's attempt to restore the time.
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    ...[A]n effort to restore the entire Easter Vigil to the Evening was undertaken by Saint John Gualbert (d. 1073AD), founder of the Vallombrosan Order, a Benedictine congregation of Italy, as related by his biographer Blessed Andrew of Strumi (d. 1097AD): “Who in Tuscany other than he moved from the day to the night the annual and renowned office to be done on the night of the holy Resurrection? For with stealthy negligence and gathering gluttony this office was performed at NONE on Saturday, that is now rightly and worthily done in the holy night, this our father John beginning and establishing in our times.” Thus the Easter Vigil rubrics of the 12th-century Customary of Vallombrosa direct that the blessing of the Easter Fire—with which the vigil commences—is to start only when “the dusk of night shall have begun to appear.



    Offline songbird

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #34 on: March 30, 2024, 07:04:05 PM »
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  • Midnight


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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #35 on: April 01, 2024, 11:22:07 AM »
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  • I don't understand. You started fasting at 3PM? I thought people either fasted until 3 PM or noon or Midnight depending on what rubric they follow. 

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #36 on: April 01, 2024, 11:25:40 AM »
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  • Yeah I did some extra but wasn't sure if noon was 3pm or 12pm. I know it used to be 3pm. And I heard that in the past they would fast until noon Holy Saturday.
    Noon is noon. 

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    Re: Holy Saturday fast time?
    « Reply #37 on: April 02, 2024, 09:43:48 AM »
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  • I don't understand. You started fasting at 3PM? I thought people either fasted until 3 PM or noon or Midnight depending on what rubric they follow.


    OP ate his last meal at 3pm on Holy Thursday and fasted from food completely until sometime Holy Saturday.