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Author Topic: Email from Fr. MacDonald  (Read 7982 times)

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Offline de Lugo

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Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2022, 03:34:05 PM »
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  • The 1996 criterion of Msgr. Williamson (which M. Taylor says was also the thinking of Msgr. Lefebvre) is not that one be ignorant of the traditional Messe, but that one is "unaware of, or disbelieving in, that evil, because of the rite’s official promulgation." 

    From what I recall of that video, this description would certainly have fit the woman.

    Apologies; this was me
    Noblesse oblige.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #61 on: October 31, 2022, 05:03:55 PM »
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  • I stand to be corrected but in the video didn't the woman ask about Novus Ordo Masses only during the week and elsewhere, that she was well aware of the Traditional Mass? If so, that plainly shows that she was not ignorant of the true Mass.

    Yes, she was aware of the TLM, because she attended it on Sundays, if I recall correctly, and I'm pretty sure I'm recalling it correctly. She asked +W about attending the New Mass on weekdays, if it was alright to do that. He said "Yes."

    I don't have a problem with someone attending the New Mass on weekdays. That may be trad heresy, I know. +W has been convicted of the same. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #62 on: October 31, 2022, 08:15:22 PM »
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  • She asked +W about attending the New Mass on weekdays, if it was alright to do that. He said "Yes."

    There was quite a bit more than, "Can I go to the new Mass?  Sure."

    To refresh your memory, begin listening at 1:01:44.

      

    He begins precisely as M. Taylor said was correct (and in line with Msgr. Lefebvre) in 1996: Distinguishing between principle and practice; the objective principle and subjective circuмstances.

    Can anyone explain why Msgr. Williamson's position was correct in 1996, but erroneous in 2015-2022?

    M. Johnson had it right all along: Abbes Pfeiffer/Hewko saw an opportunity to exploit their simple faithful, in an attempt to get the resistance to head their way.

    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #63 on: October 31, 2022, 08:34:29 PM »
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  • There was quite a bit more than, "Can I go to the new Mass?  Sure."

    To refresh your memory, begin listening at 1:01:44.

     

    He begins precisely as M. Taylor said was correct (and in line with Msgr. Lefebvre) in 1996: Distinguishing between principle and practice; the objective principle and subjective circuмstances.

    Can anyone explain why Msgr. Williamson's position was correct in 1996, but erroneous in 2015-2022?

    M. Johnson had it right all along: Abbes Pfeiffer/Hewko saw an opportunity to exploit their simple faithful, in an attempt to get the resistance to head their way.

    Keep in mind that Pfeiffer/Hewko were already publicly at war with Msgr. Williamson for two years regarding:

    -They were angry he would not place Pfeiffer in charge of a seminary
    -They were angry that he would not endorse their "red light" position
    -They were angry that he would not organize on the basis of a traditional congregation, calling the independent enclave plan "stupid"
    -They had been publicly accusing him of "sheep stealing" since 2014, when he supported Msgr. Zendejas servicing the Ridgefield area resistance chapels
    -They were criticizing him publicly for confirming Feeneyite faithful
    -They were resistant to his requesting them to separate from the Mexicano

    By the time Mahopac rolled around, it was one more complaint to fill the pews.

    Fortunately, M. Taylor has refuted all this business by showing the incredible consistency in Msgr. Williamson between 1996 - 2022, which he is clear to state was the position of Msgr. Lefebvre.
    Noblesse oblige.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #64 on: October 31, 2022, 09:17:13 PM »
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  • I don't have a problem with someone attending the New Mass on weekdays. That may be trad heresy, I know. +W has been convicted of the same.

    Then you have no problem with someone attending the New Mass.  Period.  At that point, why are you a Traditional Catholic again, refusing submission to the lawful hierarchy of the Church (as you see it)?


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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #65 on: October 31, 2022, 10:19:37 PM »
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  • Archbishop Lefebvre only admitted to validity. Everyone should know that validity does NOT equal grace (see the Church's teaching on attendance at VALID Orthodox sacraments that nevertheless are not allowed).  See also here for how +W and Johnson are wrong on this issue according to Church teaching. https://fsspx.news/en/content/32569

    I've been around long enough to recall when both +W and Johnson used to say the opposite of what they are saying about grace in the New Mass. It's actually well docuмented, particularly in +W's case. Maybe the fight has gone out of him?

    And yet the Resistance accuses the SSPX of going liberal. :facepalm: :popcorn:

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #66 on: November 01, 2022, 05:31:56 AM »
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  • Christ said we are either for Him or against Him. Anyone, anyone(!) who promotes a cursed Mass is in great spiritual danger. Trent cursed the New Mass. Quo Primum cursed the New Mass. It was created by a Freemason. It is cursed. It is anathematized. Lest some of us forget: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/09/original-sins-eucharistic-prayer-ii.html



    Archbishop Lefebvre, in his own words: Keep the Mass of All Time!  - 

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #67 on: November 01, 2022, 05:35:55 AM »
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  • And yet the Resistance accuses the SSPX of going liberal. :facepalm: :popcorn:

    Don't believe fairy tales: One lone Hewkonian hiding out in the anonymous forum casting unsubstantiated lies may be representative of Hewkonian "sanctity," but absent any substantitive backing. The Claim against Williamson was self-refuting, against which the Hewkonian could muster no response, and the claim against Johnson was completely gratuitous (a lie).  


    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #68 on: November 01, 2022, 05:37:02 AM »
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  • Christ said we are either for Him or against Him. Anyone, anyone(!) who promotes a cursed Mass is in great spiritual danger. Trent cursed the New Mass. Quo Primum cursed the New Mass. It was created by a Freemason. It is cursed. It is anathematized. Lest some of us forget: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/09/original-sins-eucharistic-prayer-ii.html



    Archbishop Lefebvre, in his own words: Keep the Mass of All Time!  -

    What does this post have to do with the thread?  Nobody here is promoting the new Mass.
    Noblesse oblige.

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #69 on: November 01, 2022, 09:30:55 AM »
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  • Then you have no problem with someone attending the New Mass.  Period.  At that point, why are you a Traditional Catholic again, refusing submission to the lawful hierarchy of the Church (as you see it)?

    I do have a problem with the New Mass. It's not like the woman in question was fulfilling her Sunday obligation at the NO. And some New Masses are worse than others. Way worse, so it can be, to a certain extent, a subjective matter. 

    And just maybe, I like to see smug laymen on this forum (who claim much more authority than the Church gives them), go ballistic. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #70 on: November 01, 2022, 09:31:40 AM »
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  • My post above. Forgot to check the box.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #71 on: November 01, 2022, 09:47:50 AM »
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  •  It's not like the woman in question was fulfilling her Sunday obligation at the NO.
    LOL. Why is going to a NO on Sunday bad but on weekdays good?

    :jester:

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #72 on: November 01, 2022, 09:50:28 AM »
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  • LOL. Why is going to a NO on Sunday bad but on weekdays good?

    :jester:

    Ever heard of the Sunday obligation? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #73 on: November 01, 2022, 10:17:07 AM »
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  • What does this post have to do with the thread?  Nobody here is promoting the new Mass.
    To divorce the idea of grace from the New Mass from the New Mass itself is kind of schizophrenic. They are inextricably linked. :fryingpan:

    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
    « Reply #74 on: November 01, 2022, 11:41:55 AM »
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  • To divorce the idea of grace from the New Mass from the New Mass itself is kind of schizophrenic. They are inextricably linked. :fryingpan:

    Dear Sir-

    Answers of this kind show me that you are not fit to metal in these matters, as it has been explained to you several times that we are discussing grace from the sacrament, not from the rite.

    My suspicion is that you have been conditioned into not being able to make that distinction as a protective measure (i.e., crimethinking as a means of persevering in error).  
    Noblesse oblige.