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Author Topic: Email from Fr. MacDonald  (Read 13891 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2022, 10:13:09 PM »
Agreed
Historically-speaking it's the heretical groups that splinter and fight like this, not the true Church herself. 

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Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2022, 10:26:20 PM »
Historically-speaking it's the heretical groups that splinter and fight like this, not the true Church herself.
The heretical New Order has been splintered and fighting since its inception. The Church has a problem that nobody wants to deal with and that is the terrible situation of a dangerously extended interregnum.


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Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2022, 04:09:29 AM »
Do we believe that the NOM is a sacrilegious bastard Rite of Mass or don't we?  If we don't, we might as well just head back to the Motu or even the local clown Mass.
Well said. If we can attend the Novus Ordo, then there is zero need for a Resistance. It undercuts the entire raison d'etre of resisting the sspx. A little common sense goes a long way here.

Too bad Fr. MacDonald is parading about this ill-conceived logic by SJ. Its not a good look.


Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2022, 12:10:14 PM »
Father Hewko -  We shall see. But it is my humble opinion, that it will be a close repetition of her decision on the Anglican orders, which were all declared invalid (and therefore not grace-giving) by Pope Leo XIII in "Apostolicae Curae" in 1896. Why? Because the Anglican adaptations to the Mass and sacrament of Holy Orders expressed a faith different from the Catholic Faith. This alone sufficed to make them invalid. Do not the New Mass changes do the same?

Sean Johnson - Apostolicae Curae limited itself to the sacrament of Holy Orders. Anglican Orders are infallibly declared invalid. It said nothing about the Anglican liturgy or purported Mass.

Sean Johnson is either ignorant, or he's of bad will here.  

Pope Leo XIII exhausted his theologians and gave the Anglicans every opportunity to prove their ordinations were valid.  When he released Apostolicae Curae, he tasked the English Bishops with writing a reply to the Anglican Archbishops.  Here is just one excerpt from the "Vindication" suggesting they took into account the Reformers attitude concerning the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as well as countless other false doctrine's of theirs, when considering Anglican Ordinations...

A Vindication of the Bull Apostolicae Curae, #38, The Destruction of Altars

"The destruction of the altars was a measure so distinct in its meaning that we have never been able to conceive how that meaning could be misunderstood. The measure meant a bitter hatred of the Mass, and a hatred directed against the Mass itself, not merely against some obscure abuse such as recent writers have sought in vain to unearth from the ambiguous phrases of one or two theological writers. Usum non tollit abusus. Surely if these reformers had desired only to remove an abuse, but were full of reverence for the great Christian Sacrifice itself, they would not have destroyed and desecrated the altars, and substituted tables in their place, alleging as their reason, in unqualified terms, that ’the form of a table shall more move the simple from the superstitious opinions of the Popish Mass unto the right use of the Lord’s Supper. For the use of an altar is to make sacrifice upon it ; the use of a table is to serve men to eat upon it."


What a striking resemblance to the Vatican II counter church...



Änσnymσus

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Re: Email from Fr. MacDonald
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2022, 12:19:04 PM »
Sean Johnson is either ignorant, or he's of bad will here. 

Pope Leo XIII exhausted his theologians and gave the Anglicans every opportunity to prove their ordinations were valid.  When he released Apostolicae Curae, he tasked the English Bishops with writing a reply to the Anglican Archbishops.  Here is just one excerpt from the "Vindication" suggesting they took into account the Reformers attitude concerning the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as well as countless other false doctrine's of theirs, when considering Anglican Ordinations...

A Vindication of the Bull Apostolicae Curae, #38, The Destruction of Altars

"The destruction of the altars was a measure so distinct in its meaning that we have never been able to conceive how that meaning could be misunderstood. The measure meant a bitter hatred of the Mass, and a hatred directed against the Mass itself, not merely against some obscure abuse such as recent writers have sought in vain to unearth from the ambiguous phrases of one or two theological writers. Usum non tollit abusus. Surely if these reformers had desired only to remove an abuse, but were full of reverence for the great Christian Sacrifice itself, they would not have destroyed and desecrated the altars, and substituted tables in their place, alleging as their reason, in unqualified terms, that ’the form of a table shall more move the simple from the superstitious opinions of the Popish Mass unto the right use of the Lord’s Supper. For the use of an altar is to make sacrifice upon it ; the use of a table is to serve men to eat upon it."


What a striking resemblance to the Vatican II counter church...

Your quotation is from Fr. MacDonald, not Sean Johnson.  Nobody has quoted Sean Johnson's article yet, despite it being appended to the OP.