Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2019, 02:59:43 PM
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It seems hypocritical that effeminacy is condemned while at the same time the priests wear albs with lace; it looks totally effeminate.
Ever since I saw these albs with lace, the thought immediately came to my mind, and I would honestly not know what to say if someone made this objection.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Marcel_Lefebvre_1981.jpg/220px-Marcel_Lefebvre_1981.jpg)
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Was Michaelangelo effeminate for painting the Sistine chapel? Just because something is beautiful and artistic doesn't mean it's effeminate to recognize or enjoy it. Effeminacy is choosing luxury and ease at the expense of labors and hard work. The beauties of the liturgy are for the purpose of honoring God, not for pleasing the sights of men. Big difference.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Marcel_Lefebvre_1981.jpg/220px-Marcel_Lefebvre_1981.jpg)
Do you see this? This may not look like much to you, but this is the ideal male figure.
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It seems hypocritical that effeminacy is condemned while at the same time the priests wear albs with lace; it looks totally effeminate.
Ever since I saw these albs with lace, the thought immediately came to my mind, and I would honestly not know what to say if someone made this objection.
Would a man make this post in the anonymous section? To post this in the anonymous section seems effeminate to me.
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It seems hypocritical that effeminacy is condemned while at the same time the priests wear albs with lace; it looks totally effeminate.
Ever since I saw these albs with lace, the thought immediately came to my mind, and I would honestly not know what to say if someone made this objection.
Give me a break, the Church has used them for centuries. You seem to be looking for problems.
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Was Michaelangelo effeminate for painting the Sistine chapel?
He was about as effeminate as a man can get :laugh1:
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Give me a break, the Church has used them for centuries. You seem to be looking for problems.
The one that +Lefebvre is wearing is probably not what OP had in mind. I had a bad experience with excessively lacey surplices at STAS -- it was mostly the future SSJ crowd that was very big into these. We're talking lacey to the point of looking like women's lingerie, not what +Lefebvre was wearing.
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The one that +Lefebvre is wearing is probably not what OP had in mind. I had a bad experience with excessively lacey surplices at STAS -- it was mostly the future SSJ crowd that was very big into these. We're talking lacey to the point of looking like women's lingerie, not what +Lefebvre was wearing.
Do you have any pictures as examples? I'm not really sure what you mean.
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Do you have any pictures as examples? I'm not really sure what you mean.
No, I didn't take pictures, but it was like this (and worse ... imagine the top solid part not being there and more floral patterns all the way up and down) --
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5789/1668/320/french-yesterdays_1881_2619857.jpg)
The entire Urrutigoity cabal wore them and insisted on wearing them.
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Reminds me as well of the ICK priests I came across during vocational travels.
For the SSJ, full length English surplices were the soup de jour too. I still have one from my aborted attempt to join them. :facepalm:
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The one that +Lefebvre is wearing is probably not what OP had in mind. I had a bad experience with excessively lacey surplices at STAS -- it was mostly the future SSJ crowd that was very big into these. We're talking lacey to the point of looking like women's lingerie, not what +Lefebvre was wearing.
Ok, if it was that egregious, I might agree. Look at this, however.....
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One of Saint Pius X:
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Another.
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I think there’s also the part being played in who the man is wearing the lace. St Pius X and Archbishop Lefebvre were men. Urrutigoity and co are floral upside and down in their personalities ... and actions.
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I think there’s also the part being played in who the man is wearing the lace. St Pius X and Archbishop Lefebvre were men. Urrutigoity and co are floral upside and down in their personalities ... and actions.
Urrutigoity is lucky that he wasn’t a priest when Saint Pius V was reigning.
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Who is Urritigoity?
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Who is Urritigoity?
He’s a former SSPX priest.
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I think there’s also the part being played in who the man is wearing the lace. St Pius X and Archbishop Lefebvre were men. Urrutigoity and co are floral upside and down in their personalities ... and actions.
Of course. You kindof had to have experienced the Urrutigoity cabal to have developed this particular sensibility.
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He’s a former SSPX priest.
... who became implicated in various sins against nature involving young men under his care. Just do some Googling on "Urrutigoity Society of St. John".
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/curious-case-carlos-urrutigoity-i-updated (https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/curious-case-carlos-urrutigoity-i-updated)
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Of course. You kindof had to have experienced the Urrutigoity cabal to have developed this particular sensibility.
Thanks be to God, there are many of us who have been freed of this horror! Reading Randy Engels case against him was enough.
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I am most thankful to the Holy Ghost for quickly extracting me from the SSJ cult (cult in the pejorative sense)
Of all the postulants who came that fateful time in Shohola, and I believe there were about eight, all were gone I was later told within about a month. I was gone in 12 hours. One night was enough.
Alas that the whole lot were not strung up and made to sway in the breeze as a reminder to other pervs.
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Only the best for Jesus.
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The one that +Lefebvre is wearing is probably not what OP had in mind. I had a bad experience with excessively lacey surplices at STAS -- it was mostly the future SSJ crowd that was very big into these. We're talking lacey to the point of looking like women's lingerie, not what +Lefebvre was wearing.
OP here and yes, that's right, the one that Lefebvre is wearing in the first photo actually looks fine.
The one he's wearing in the second photo, and the ones even St. Pius X himself is wearing, I'm sorry, but those look effeminate.
I don't think recognizing this is a sin or "bad." I think it was in the McHugh and Callan moral theology book that I read that one might dislike and object to religious art because not all religious/sacred art is well made or "good" looking, so this may seem to be similar, in my view.
I don't like this sort of brain-washing where men look at flowery lace and say "yeah that looks so manly" simply because a Saint or someone highly regarded would wear it.
A black cassock, on the other hand, looks very good and manly, in my mind. The world seems to think so too, since this is the outfit they gave Neo in the Matrix movies (not endorsing or approving of them in any way).
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Was Michaelangelo effeminate for painting the Sistine chapel? Just because something is beautiful and artistic doesn't mean it's effeminate to recognize or enjoy it. Effeminacy is choosing luxury and ease at the expense of labors and hard work. The beauties of the liturgy are for the purpose of honoring God, not for pleasing the sights of men. Big difference.
I don't see what painting the Sistine Chapel has to do with flowery lace, and like someone else said, maybe he was effeminate after all.
Something can be beautiful and artistic without being effeminate.
I am not objecting to everything in the liturgy, only to effeminate lace albs.
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Would a man make this post in the anonymous section? To post this in the anonymous section seems effeminate to me.
Anonymity eliminates biased answers and ad hominems, among other things.
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Anonymity eliminates biased answers and ad hominems, among other things.
In that case, maybe it would be a good idea to make all threads anonymous :jester:
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I was on a trip that took me through PA and attended a Sunday Mass at the place they basically stole funds for. Could not get away fast enough. I remember their ordinations and wondered what the faggy dress was all about. Midevel they claimed, I thought not any I've ever seen
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Anonymity eliminates biased answers and ad hominems, among other things.
No it doesn't.
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Anonymity eliminates biased answers and ad hominems, among other things.
Or, rather, no it doesn't, you idiot.
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Or, rather, no it doesn't, you idiot.
That's better!
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Or, rather, no it doesn't, you idiot.
Insulting people isn't actually ad hominem. Ad hominem is only when you use it to make an argument. Like: "This man is an idiot, he has no idea what he's talking about." But making a valid point and then adding an insult at the end doesn't make it ad hominem.
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It seems hypocritical that effeminacy is condemned while at the same time the priests wear albs with lace; it looks totally effeminate.
Ever since I saw these albs with lace, the thought immediately came to my mind, and I would honestly not know what to say if someone made this objection.
In this particular case I think it's just a matter of familiarity. I was born in the 60's in Mexico and used to go to mass in churches built between the 17th and 19th centuries, neoclassical and baroque styles. Priest's vestments were very rich and full of ornate, matching the richness of the altars. In my child eyes, when the changes came, plain albs and chasubles seemed to me out of place and "quasi protestant". Below is a picture of a priest when we was killed during the Cristero war. You can see the lace in the alb. Also, a picture of the altar of the Our Lady of Guadalupe church in Guadalajara. Rich vestments make sense (the table in the center was added in the early 70's). My parents got married in this church and also I was baptized there. By the way, on the bottom left side you can see a white plate dedicated to Anacleto Gonzalez Flores, martyred during the war in a place about 5 blocks from this church. In sum, lace albs no big deal for me because of my background.
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In this particular case I think it's just a matter of familiarity. I was born in the 60's in Mexico and used to go to mass in churches built between the 17th and 19th centuries, neoclassical and baroque styles. Priest's vestments were very rich and full of ornate, matching the richness of the altars. In my child eyes, when the changes came, plain albs and chasubles seemed to me out of place and "quasi protestant". Below is a picture of a priest when we was killed during the Cristero war. You can see the lace in the alb. Also, a picture of the altar of the Our Lady of Guadalupe church in Guadalajara. Rich vestments make sense (the table in the center was added in the early 70's). My parents got married in this church and also I was baptized there. By the way, on the bottom left side you can see a white plate dedicated to Anacleto Gonzalez Flores, martyred during the war in a place about 5 blocks from this church. In sum, lace albs no big deal for me because of my background.