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Author Topic: Does a potential spouse have a right to know sɛҳuąƖ history before marriage?  (Read 56321 times)

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Änσnymσus

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  • I know 2 priest who said, tell all.  Also, the sin is forgiven by God,not forgotten by humans.  Then there is STD's. There are some that men have no symptoms and the woman gets them.  STD's that are hidden for awhile and then show for themselves.  Answer is tell all!

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  • In traditional cultures, it was assumed safely that the girl was a virgin. A man wouldn't need to feel insecure about it.

    If you are a man who really cares about it, then don't marry an american woman. Go to asia and marry a young woman, by first meeting her family and sizing her up that way.

    If you can handle that your wife has possibly been with someone else, then just put it out of your mind.

    Neither men nor women have a right to know about such things.


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  • If you are so inclined to hire someone to spy on her then she should not marry YOU. I would never trust a man who had such little trust in me. Better not to marry at all. Or find another man.
    "If he can't handle me at my worst, he doesn't deserve me at my best". Feminist BS.

    Offline Matthew

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  • Quote
    A woman who would insist that a man believe her word, in this day and age, that she hasn't...



    Hey, if that's you Croix, just a reminder, I *can* see who posts in the anonymous subforum.

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    Änσnymσus

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  • I know 2 priest who said, tell all.  Also, the sin is forgiven by God,not forgotten by humans.  Then there is STD's. There are some that men have no symptoms and the woman gets them.  STD's that are hidden for awhile and then show for themselves.  Answer is tell all!
    Name them. Also, give imprimaturs from traditional or pre-Conciliar bishops. Regarding STDs: there are tests.


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  • If you are so inclined to hire someone to spy on her then she should not marry YOU. I would never trust a man who had such little trust in me. Better not to marry at all. Or find another man.
    Sounds like there's something in your past that you wouldn't want a suitor to know about. Hm.........

    Offline 2Vermont

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  • OP here. I was mistaken about the authorship. It was not a Fr. Lord pamphlet but rather QUESTIONS YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN ASK BEFORE MARRIAGE by Donald F. Miller, C.Ss.R.

    Imprimi Potest: John N. McCormick, C.Ss.R, Provincial, St. Louis Province, Redemptorist Fathers November 20, 1961
    Imprimatur: + Joseph Cardinal Ritter, Archbishop of St. Louis, November 24, 1961

    Here is the relevant text:
    I can't help but notice that this priestly advice consistently includes warnings about men who demand or insist to know the past of their potential spouses.  I assume that this would also apply to women who would do the same (although they do not say this explicitly). It seems to me that if one were to willingly offer this information without provocation that would be a much different scenario.  


    I think we also need to keep in mind that these are opinions, and I suspect that different priests might have different opinions on how to proceed.  Not all moral questions have black and white/cut and dried answers.  In fact, even these priests say there are exceptions and that they leave room for them.  The McHugh and Callan example above also seems to hint at a different answer depending upon whether the person would use the past information against the other.   

    Offline Stanley N

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  • Whether a woman can can form a strong emotional bond should be clear from her behavior over a few dates.

    So from that perspective, I don't think inquiring about virginity is needed.


    Änσnymσus

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  • Does a woman have a right to know that her fiance has same sex attraction but not acted on it?

    Does a woman have a right to know that her fiance has had relationships with men in the past?  She could be exposed to AIDS or other disease by marrying him.  


    Offline Matthew

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  • Does a woman have a right to know that her fiance has same sex attraction but not acted on it?

    Does a woman have a right to know that her fiance has had relationships with men in the past?  She could be exposed to AIDS or other disease by marrying him.  

    Yes on both counts. Dishonesty -- INCLUDING HIDING OF IMPORTANT, RELEVANT FACTS with a bearing on the future -- even if it doesn't invalidate the marriage contract, certainly sets the marriage up for FAILURE nevertheless. You can have a failed marriage -- one or both spouses living alone, separated, no longer intimate, hating each other, etc. -- even if a marriage is "valid" which just means the contract was validly created (and thus can't be dissolved except by the death of one of the spouses).

    The 2 priests quoted are only talking about the Letter of the Law. They aren't talking about what is PRUDENT, ADVISABLE, or what one SHOULD DO if they want a happy marriage.

    Even pagans and non-Catholics understand the truth that A marriage must be built on trust.  Are Catholics to be worse than pagans? God forbid.

    Don't think you can hide something like a Same Sex Attraction, loss of virginity, criminal record, pedophilia, etc. from your spouse without any consequences. Especially in this day and age of the Internet. What will your spouse do, say, and react when she finds out YOU LIED TO HER? Certain sins or events scar a person for life; they make a person "damaged goods". A spouse should be aware they are making a life-long contract with damaged goods. Anyone who denies this is IGNORANT, NAIVE, and/or A FOOL -- no exceptions.

    Grace does not re-create or wipe out Nature. It builds on Nature. If Grace totally renovated and overwrote Nature, then there would be no effects of Original Sin seen among baptized persons in the world today!

    If a spouse finds out that you hid something grave, a separation is NOT out of the question. In fact, I would advise it in all cases! If your spouse hid something serious like that from you -- something which affects your future family, marriage, marital relations, ability to provide for the family, etc. -- a wise spouse will not forgive them but insist on permanent separation of house and board (live separately, but not remarry).
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    Offline Geremia

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  • How does a member of the Resistance get an annulment?
    Probably with a "Resistance tribunal"…
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    Änσnymσus

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  • We have been told by our priests that one use of porn can destroy a man's natural attraction for real women for life. 

    This is just retarded. Here is an example of why the faithful shouldn't take every word of advice from priests as infallible. This is an example of priests who know not the real world and can't give good pragmatic advice.

    Offline Yeti

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  • This is just retarded. Here is an example of why the faithful shouldn't take every word of advice from priests as infallible. This is an example of priests who know not the real world and can't give good pragmatic advice.
    .
    I think it's more likely that the person who posted that misunderstood what she heard. Of course the statement, as quoted, is ludicrous.
    .
    I'm not sure what we're still discussing here. We've already been given quotes from pre-Vatican 2 authors on the question posed, which explained the reasoning at great length and answered many objections, including the objections that people have made in this thread, as if they hadn't read the quote from Fr. Miller.
    .
    I once heard Bp. Dolan say that it is a great modern error for spouses to confess their infidelities to each other, and causes great damage. For people with no religion, and no confession, it is maybe an understandable error, but for Catholics who have been given the sacrament of confession to receive the pardon of their sins, there is no excuse for that kind of stupidity.
    .
    By all means, yes, get a medical test to determine if your fiance has a venereal disease, have a PI look into whether they have an illegitimate child somewhere, ... but ... asking someone about what they confess in confession??! Seriously?? I couldn't imagine myself ever asking anyone such a thing, under any circuмstances. Is nothing sacred with you people?

    Offline Matthew

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  • By all means, yes, get a medical test to determine if your fiance has a venereal disease, have a PI look into whether they have an illegitimate child somewhere, ... but ... asking someone about what they confess in confession??! Seriously?? I couldn't imagine myself ever asking anyone such a thing, under any circuмstances. Is nothing sacred with you people?
    I would never advocate spouses "going to confession" to each other. That makes a mockery of what I'm talking about.
    I'll repeat --

    Dishonesty -- INCLUDING HIDING OF IMPORTANT, RELEVANT FACTS with a bearing on the future -- even if it doesn't invalidate the marriage contract, certainly sets the marriage up for FAILURE nevertheless. You can have a failed marriage -- one or both spouses living alone, separated, no longer intimate, hating each other, etc. -- even if a marriage is "valid" which just means the contract was validly created (and thus can't be dissolved except by the death of one of the spouses).

    The 2 priests quoted are only talking about the Letter of the Law. They aren't talking about what is PRUDENT, ADVISABLE, or what one SHOULD DO if they want a happy marriage.

    Even pagans and non-Catholics understand the truth that A marriage must be built on trust.  Are Catholics to be worse than pagans? God forbid.

    Don't think you can hide something like a Same Sex Attraction, loss of virginity, criminal record, pedophilia, etc. from your spouse without any consequences. Especially in this day and age of the Internet. What will your spouse do, say, and react when she finds out YOU LIED TO HER? Certain sins or events scar a person for life; they make a person "damaged goods". A spouse should be aware they are making a life-long contract with damaged goods. Anyone who denies this is IGNORANT, NAIVE, and/or A FOOL -- no exceptions.

    Grace -- and yes, that includes the Sacrament of Penance -- does not re-create or wipe out Nature. It builds on Nature. If Grace totally renovated and overwrote Nature, then there would be no effects of Original Sin seen among baptized persons in the world today! Go re-read your Catechism, specifically on the doctrine of Original Sin, and the effects left on our soul by Actual Sin even after going to Confession. Vices and virtues don't disappear instantly. Some behaviors leave a mark, a scar, an inclination.

    If a spouse finds out that you hid something grave, a separation is NOT out of the question. In fact, I would advise it in all cases! If your spouse hid something serious like that from you -- something which affects your future family, marriage, marital relations, ability to provide for the family, etc. -- a wise spouse will not forgive them but insist on permanent separation of house and board (live separately, but not remarry).
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
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    Änσnymσus

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  • This is just retarded. Here is an example of why the faithful shouldn't take every word of advice from priests as infallible. This is an example of priests who know not the real world and can't give good pragmatic advice.
    These are the words of someone who has been looking at porn, and has deluded himself (with the assistance of the enemy) into the false belief is that it's harmless.