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Author Topic: Does a potential spouse have a right to know sɛҳuąƖ history before marriage?  (Read 56191 times)

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Änσnymσus

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  • I don't understand. :confused:  I guess we need to define "boyfriend/girlfriend" & 'romanced'. 

    To me, there's nothing intrinsically contradictory between those words & "dating to marry strictly."  If one goes on a few dates with someone, trying to discern whether they're compatible for marriage, they could be considered "boyfriend/girlfriend", & it could be considered a "romance."  And it could be perfectly chaste.

    If the statement: "I heard from a traditional Catholic girl that having a boyfriend/girlfriend is okay (SSPX raised), ... but it seems improper. I do not want a girl to compare me to other men who have 'romanced' her" means they've committed sins against chastity, then say so directly.  But the terms "boyfriend/girlfriend" & 'romanced' don't necessarily imply let-alone state that definitely.  A man buying a woman roses could be considered being 'romanced'.  And if you judged that girl to be meaning "committing sins against chastity with an SSPX raised member of the opposite sex", I think you committed a sin of rash judgment.  You should indeed have " enquired for then to clarify what they meant."



    I was going to say something similar.
    What do you mean, exactly, by "romanced"? Writing her poems, giving her flowers, showing her interest & attention that wouldn't be shown to men?
    If you mean fornication, just say fornication. If you mean sins against the sixth & ninth, just say so. If you mean open-mouthed kissing, just say so.
    We need to be clear about our terms.

    Many Trads use "dating" to refer to typical worldly dating (with superficial hanging out/having fun at best, and impure kissing, touching, and premarital sex at worst) and "courting" to refer to proper, chaste Traditional Catholic socializing between the sexes with a view to discerning a possible marriage partner. Dating is impure and immature, courtship is pure and mature.

    Änσnymσus

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  • I heard from a traditional Catholic girl that having a boyfriend/girlfriend is okay (SSPX raised), I didn't enquire for then to clarify what they meant, but it seems improper. I do not want a girl to compare me to other men who have 'romanced' her.
    Trads sometimes use the term "dating" due to social influence but they might mean "courting" or "dating to marry." I know the traditional idea is to only meet when there are chaperones and limiting the time they are together, the time they talk, etc. and trying to arrange equal times with each others family to get the feel of everything.   


    Änσnymσus

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  • Why do you assume it would be a woman with "a past"?  Why couldn't it have been a man with a past, who doesn't like hearing that Catholic women don't want a man with "no wrapper"? 



    When you say "vast majority", do you mean including all worldlings?  Or the audience here at CathInfo, where I would be surprised if the vast majority of Traditional Catholic women DO want a man with a past and do choose the men with no wrapper.  It's hard for me to imagine truly Catholic women wanting that.  Or, did you mean that the  "macho" types incorrectly assume a Traditional Catholic woman wants a man with a past/no wrapper? 
    Typically women are the ones who don't want to be "judged" for having fornicated with multiple men and they often emote and get upset when the fact that most men don't want a woman with high numbers is brought up.

    Yes, by vast majority, I mean wordlings and people in general.  It's not a secret that most women (in general) prefer a man with "experience" and view men without it with disgust with terms such as "incel," "loser," "inadequate with women," "autistic," etc.  This attitude unfortunately trickles down to trads to some degree or another.  I know the focus should just be on trads but if people are being honest then the vast majority of stuff out there influences trads to some degree or another so it needs to be discussed as well.  

    If a trad woman had a good upbringing with a strong father and good mother then this disgusting trickle down from the vast majority will not effect them much or at all.  To note, there are even secular women out there who find men with many partners as disgusting so you can find some holdouts in all spheres of society but unfortunately they are drowned out by the immoral majority.    

    Änσnymσus

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  • Men's self-esteem and confidence are heavily attacked from a young age, through being told they are evil oppressors that need to treat women 'right' (simping) to being rejected for trying to be a good man by women who only want to sleep around with men out of their league. Men also don't have 'support' like women do, they don't talk about their problems/emotions but bottle it up. So if a man can provide for a family, even if he isn't a virgin, he is still in a much better position then most modern men, because most guys can't provide since unless you starting 'grinding' in your teens it's very difficult for a man to succeed in providing in their peak years (20s for youth). Both men and women can easily 'waste' themselves, men by not getting income by wasting their youth, women by wasting their youth whoring themselves. There is a clear difference in how men and women destroy themselves and waste their most valuable years. There are also many men who can provide yet women still don't want them. Even trad girls can have ridiculous romantic fantasies and other unrealistic expectations from Jєωιѕн propaganda, we're not all prince charming, and most guys do not have the confidence to be 'him' due to not receiving love, support, respect and validation from women, simply because they weren't handsome enough, or had self-esteem issues from other things. I am not surprised that users here have mentioned that their are many trad men who incapable, being trad does not make you immune to the issues in the world and larger society.

    This 100%.  One thing I'll add is that someone (I think AnthonyPadua) posted some girl (some flavor of Protestant but she was spot on on this issue) talking about "pron" for women and how it is different from "pron" for men.  

    Men get visual stuff but women get books/short stories and words and emotional tinglings that warp her perception of reality by reading romance novels, usually the "spicy" kind.  This warps her perception of what a partner should be much like the visual "pron" warps a man's perception of what a partner should be.  Both sides indulging in their respective garbage are making it near impossible to form a good and natural bond with someone due to their warped perception.  Men will want women who are "hot" and will satisfy their base urges meanwhile women will want men who give them the thrilling roller coaster ride that their novels portray.   

    Änσnymσus

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  • This 100%.  One thing I'll add is that someone (I think AnthonyPadua) posted some girl (some flavor of Protestant but she was spot on on this issue) talking about "pron" for women and how it is different from "pron" for men. 

    Men get visual stuff but women get books/short stories and words and emotional tinglings that warp her perception of reality by reading romance novels, usually the "spicy" kind.  This warps her perception of what a partner should be much like the visual "pron" warps a man's perception of what a partner should be.  Both sides indulging in their respective garbage are making it near impossible to form a good and natural bond with someone due to their warped perception.  Men will want women who are "hot" and will satisfy their base urges meanwhile women will want men who give them the thrilling roller coaster ride that their novels portray. 
    Non-spicy Romance novels = softcore pron
    Spicy Romance novels = hardcore pron


    Änσnymσus

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  • This 100%.  One thing I'll add is that someone (I think AnthonyPadua) posted some girl (some flavor of Protestant but she was spot on on this issue) talking about "pron" for women and how it is different from "pron" for men. 

    Men get visual stuff but women get books/short stories and words and emotional tinglings that warp her perception of reality by reading romance novels, usually the "spicy" kind.  This warps her perception of what a partner should be much like the visual "pron" warps a man's perception of what a partner should be.  Both sides indulging in their respective garbage are making it near impossible to form a good and natural bond with someone due to their warped perception.  Men will want women who are "hot" and will satisfy their base urges meanwhile women will want men who give them the thrilling roller coaster ride that their novels portray. 
    I think it's important to note that both men and women like both visual and emotional stimulation but in different ways.

    For men the pron is highly visual and gives some emotional stimulation by the way of then womens obedience.

    For women the book is highly emotional and gives visual stimulation by the cover art, which always features very attractive men (at least 7/10 but mainly 8+/10) which is less than 5% and 1% of men in reality.

    That's last part is important, because girls aren't happy if an unattractive man tries to give them that rollercoaster ride of emotions. This is especially the case of women with inflated egos due to social media and reading romance novels, most man cannot compare to the the top 5% of men while even the top 1% of men cannot compare to the imaginary men of romance novels. While most women can't get a body like the girls features in pron, at most a women can lose weight to be skinny but she cannot magically grow larger breasts and change her hip ratio etc with surgery/implants, likewise a man cannot change his face (though body work is less dangerous than facial work).

    Offline josh987654321

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  • It's not a secret that most women (in general) prefer a man with "experience" and view men without it

    lol seriously? where are you getting this from? There are women on these forums, any of them here today or when they were young wanted a guy who had slept around (so called 'experienced') first? I'm calling bull, you should put that to the test asking on this forum, I would be surprised if such were true.

    God Bless

    Änσnymσus

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  • lol seriously? where are you getting this from? There are women on these forums, any of them here today or when they were young wanted a guy who had slept around (so called 'experienced') first? I'm calling bull, you should put that to the test asking on this forum, I would be surprised if such were true.

    God Bless
    Yeah I would think that 'real' traditional women prefer a man with no experience or emotional baggage, as a previous lady poster said. And as others have said, a man can make up for it in other ways but he should still accept he may get rejected for it. Still; no hymen no diamond, no seal no deal.


    Änσnymσus

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  • I had history, my wife had history, but we both converted at the same time and have kept the faith. 

    If I were to have my time again, I would have done things very differently as I deeply regret my past life and will endure a long purgatory to clean up my soul, because no matter how well your confession went, you know you are slightly damaged. 

    I was influenced by an early exposore to pornography, liberal media, liberal parents and a resentless desire to "get laid". Even pop music drums into your brain the importance of finding "true love", and this totally warps your priorities. 

    We have raised our children very differently. No sappy love songs, and a deep desire for purity. It's not particularly difficult if you don't have a TV, choose good schools and discuss this issues rather than avoiding them. 

    You may not be able to fix yourself completely, but you can certainly give a healthier childhood to your children than you may have recieved yourself.  

    Änσnymσus

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  • lol seriously? where are you getting this from? There are women on these forums, any of them here today or when they were young wanted a guy who had slept around (so called 'experienced') first? I'm calling bull, you should put that to the test asking on this forum, I would be surprised if such were true.

    God Bless
    In general, this includes secular and worldly women.  The rest of my post explains this, maybe you missed that part.  Real life experience and hearing women, in general, talk are only part of where I get that from.  I would assume that most, maybe even all, women on here would not like a guy with a lot, or any, "experience."

    Änσnymσus

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  • What we perceive I think sometimes is based on what we imagine, the problem with the imagination is that if you look at everything with a melancholy perspective, then that is what you notice.  If you have a more positive attitude, then you will notice more positive things.  Then to add to our own perspective. you have demons playing in your imagination as well.
    And more to the point is both sexes are having issue because media propaganda has influenced the world this way.  Break out of the mold.  Pray for your future spouse, and that God's will be done.  Then use your will to become the best person you can be.  If you find that when thinking on these topics you become depressed then take it to the confessional, because depression is a step toward despair.
    How to be positive when you are depressed? Also I have had temptations of despair. I feel like I'm stuck in a negative feedback loop with little hope (I do have some hope, just i feel blind sometimes). I don't see how I could speak to a priest about this, even posting this anonymously is difficult (even though the forum owner can still see..:'(). I do recognise my sufferings and temptations is helping me to grow but I just feel so weighed down and low energy all the time.


    Offline Gray2023

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  • How to be positive when you are depressed? Also I have had temptations of despair. I feel like I'm stuck in a negative feedback loop with little hope (I do have some hope, just i feel blind sometimes). I don't see how I could speak to a priest about this, even posting this anonymously is difficult (even though the forum owner can still see..:'(). I do recognise my sufferings and temptations is helping me to grow but I just feel so weighed down and low energy all the time.
    I used to have this issue as well.  Everything would seem so hopeless, but by making little efforts, things improved.  The easiest thing to do is to keep saying Hail Mary's until the feeling passes.  Also finding good healthy distractions from you thoughts, help.  Do you have a hobby?

    Prayers for you.  I know it is tough, but if you keep giving it to our Lord and our Lady it will get better.

    If you find that this depression keeps you roaming the internet at night (I am making a guess), then just give your self a bedtime and stick to it.  If you fail confess how many times you missed it.  Or you can do this with any vice that is connected to the depression.  It could be getting out of bed at a certain time.  It could be too much snacking.  It could be making your bed every day.  I hope you get the idea.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Änσnymσus

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  • How to be positive when you are depressed? Also I have had temptations of despair. I feel like I'm stuck in a negative feedback loop with little hope (I do have some hope, just i feel blind sometimes). I don't see how I could speak to a priest about this, even posting this anonymously is difficult (even though the forum owner can still see..:'(). I do recognise my sufferings and temptations is helping me to grow but I just feel so weighed down and low energy all the time.
    Ahh. This question is a hard one to answer. What you're going through also accurately describes me. 

    But if I may suggest to you, anon, one time, my priest told me that if I ever was anxious or depressed, I needed to read the Sermon on the Mount. It is not long and says everything one needs to hear—and everything one would want to hear, too!

    I must say that it does help me. Sometimes, Our Lord’s words bring tears to my eyes. No one before or since spoke like Him. They speak directly into our hearts. 

    I, like you, really struggle with sadness and ridiculous temptations, and I am quick to try and escape the trials and suffering God gives me. The worst part is I end up suffering anyway, and usually, I make things worse.

    I sympathize with you, which does not account for much now, but I will pray for you.

    Speaking of which, prayer is good for the both of us. The rosary always helps. 

    Sometimes advice or suggestions like this do not sink in when I hear it because it sounds too easy.

    Unfortunately, personally speaking, I become resentful of it and those that say it to me. But the hard truth is that THEY’RE RIGHT. Haha.

    One of the things I reflect upon is Jesus’s Passion and how alone He was during all of it. God truly is with those suffering like we do. It doesn't *feel* like God is close in these moments but gaze upon the Crucifix when times are hard and think about Jesus.
     
    Hang in there, friend. God bless you, and Our Lady keep you.

    (I'm going to go take my own advice now.)
    😊👍

    Änσnymσus

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  • Do you have a hobby?

    If you find that this depression keeps you roaming the internet at night (I am making a guess), then just give your self a bedtime and stick to it.  If you fail confess how many times you missed it.  Or you can do this with any vice that is connected to the depression.  It could be getting out of bed at a certain time.  It could be too much snacking.  It could be making your bed every day.  I hope you get the idea.
    I don't have any hobbies as I don't find anything enjoyable. What is a hobby anyway?
    I still do my daily routine but exercise is not making progress as I have no motivation to push my self, and while I exercise I just want it to be over.

    Ahh. This question is a hard one to answer. What you're going through also accurately describes me.

    But if I may suggest to you, anon, one time, my priest told me that if I ever was anxious or depressed, I needed to read the Sermon on the Mount. It is not long and says everything one needs to hear—and everything one would want to hear, too!

    I must say that it does help me. Sometimes, Our Lord’s words bring tears to my eyes. No one before or since spoke like Him. They speak directly into our hearts.

    I, like you, really struggle with sadness and ridiculous temptations, and I am quick to try and escape the trials and suffering God gives me. The worst part is I end up suffering anyway, and usually, I make things worse.

    I sympathize with you, which does not account for much now, but I will pray for you.

    Speaking of which, prayer is good for the both of us. The rosary always helps.

    Sometimes advice or suggestions like this do not sink in when I hear it because it sounds too easy.

    Unfortunately, personally speaking, I become resentful of it and those that say it to me. But the hard truth is that THEY’RE RIGHT. Haha.

    One of the things I reflect upon is Jesus’s Passion and how alone He was during all of it. God truly is with those suffering like we do. It doesn't *feel* like God is close in these moments but gaze upon the Crucifix when times are hard and think about Jesus.
     
    Hang in there, friend. God bless you, and Our Lady keep you.

    (I'm going to go take my own advice now.)
    😊👍
    Thanks.

    Änσnymσus

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     I don't see how I could speak to a priest about this,


    I strongly recommend you do.  If you are embarrassed to speak to a priest who knows you (though you should try to get over it), go to another location where the priest doesn't know you.  But truly, you should speak to your pastor.  Priests are not going to say, "wow, you weirdo, what is your problem?!"  I can't think of a Trad priest who wouldn't be compassionate & try to give you good advice.  And sometimes just speaking with someone is half that battle.  

    Also, try to eat wholesome organic foods.  What you eat can have an effect on your depression.  And try to find a good alternative doctor, maybe a naturopath, who might be able to help you.  

    And of course, try to follow the good spiritual advice given to you in the last few posts.  I will pray for you.