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Author Topic: Does a potential spouse have a right to know sɛҳuąƖ history before marriage?  (Read 107527 times)

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Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Matthew is right on one point in particular; It is different for men.

If it is a woman asking then, you should probably tell them. Not so sure about their being a "right". 

If it is a man, then just don't tell . 

I think people are using the word 'right' in a more colloquial sense. In the strict sense of the word-- as something to which one is entitled by virtue of the natural or supernatural law-- I find it very difficult to assert that someone is entitled to know the sɛҳuąƖ history of a non-spouse.  I think what people are more saying is that whether or not a spouse is a virgin or a chronic masturbator is going to factor into their evaluation of the spouse's fitness, and hence, is something they would like to know and have reason to know.  And yet, I think in most cases it would not really be a right to know.
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Rights and duties correspond, so if one person has a proper right to a certain piece of information it means another has a proper duty to provide it.  Is it the case that fornicators and the like, especially when they are repentant, are duty bound to disclose their past to others?  At what point?  Is it first date kind of stuff? Engagement kind of stuff?  At what point has the fornicator morally sinned in failing to disclose?  This seems like Scarlet letter type stuff. 
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Here's where it could become a right.  Suppose a virgin suitor says they would never marry a non-virgin. At that point, their consent to marry enters into the picture, and the non-virgin suitor would seem to indeed have a proper duty to disclose, probably out of charity and to prevent them from consenting to something that they would not otherwise consent to.
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All that said, it seems that in general, prudence suggests disclosing for a few reasons, even if there is no proper duty/right to give or receive the disclosure. There is a good chance such information will be revealed later anyways: social media being what it is, people's histories being shamelessly advertised, etc., suggest that a non-virgin spouse will eventually be found out.  Better to disclose it at some point in the courtship than for it to come out later, and possibly risk the other spouse feeling betrayed.  For men disclosing pornography use to their girlfriend's, same idea. Especially if the use has been 'addictive', because it is unlikely, in a digital world, that such a secret will be able to be maintained forever.  None of this constitutes a duty/right, I do not think, but something can be the best thing to do without there actually being a duty to do it.
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It being a question of prudence (i.e., good moral/situational judgment), there will be cases where it is prudent to not disclose, too.


Änσnymσus

  • Guest
If one says to a potential spouse that they would never want to marry a non-virgin, the other doesn't have to disclose anything if they don't want to.  They can just walk away.  No harm, no foul.  You can always wait until you find the perfect spouse.  Maybe they will never show up.  But at least you didn't marry a non-virgin.

In at least broad brushstrokes, then yes, I'd say the spouses need to know one another's past sɛҳuąƖ history.  Even if, just for the sake of argument, one does not have a "right", still, it's a "better to know" scenario.  And someone having "slipped" once or twice is a whole different critter from having been a whore or a whoremonger.  (I use those terms in the broad sense, not necessarily indicating sex-for-money.)  And the way things are getting nowadays, seems everybody under 30 wants to be the gender and the identity other than what they were born with --- as though people should just be born with an interchangeable set of Lego parts for pudenda virila vel muliebre! --- any gαy exploits, other than perhaps a single drunken incident or two (women nowadays are getting pretty adventurous in that regard, perhaps because many of them hate men so much?), should be disclosed as well.  I'd want to know in either instance.

But let me pose this question --- would substantial error about the sɛҳuąƖ past of a spouse have been grounds for annulment before Vatican II?  I know, nowadays, you can often get an "annulment" just for your jib having been cut differently than what your partner had in mind, but "back in the day"?  If it would have been, can someone supply a source?

And in the interests of full disclosure, Deo gratias, I was a male virgin on my wedding night --- I'd been no simon-pure saint, I'd done things I shouldn't have done (and which have long since been burnt up in the confessional), yes, they involved real-life women, but in the strict technical sense, I was a virgin.  I shall not speak one way or the other about my wife, we are divorced (she lives in mortal sin with an illicit consort) but in the Eyes of God we are husband and wife, and she is the mother of my son.  (Considering the circuмstances, we actually get along quite amicably.)

But let me pose this question --- would substantial error about the sɛҳuąƖ past of a spouse have been grounds for annulment before Vatican II?  I know, nowadays, you can often get an "annulment" just for your jib having been cut differently than what your partner had in mind, but "back in the day"?  If it would have been, can someone supply a source?
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Only in a case of conditional consent. Conditional consent is when the vow given is 'I will to marry you as long as...'.
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Conditional consent is notoriously difficult to prove.  In most cases of it being claimed, no annulment is given for that reason.  I think that failure to disclose a sɛҳuąƖ past could theoretically annul a marriage if the other person clearly manifested their consent on that past being a certain way. It would be possible, though rare.
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However, here is something to think about-- not touching the validity of the marriage so much as the rectitude and wisdom of such behavior.  The Catholic view of virginity is one that associates with virtue (chastity, in particular).  The reason that virginity is desirable is, in large part, due to it being a precondition to perfect chastity.  But a non-virgin can be just short of perfectly chaste, supposing the right repentance and reform.  If a man refuses her, still, on the grounds of her non-virginity, it seems superstitious rather than Catholic. 
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There is of course the psychological aspect of things, but that is just psychological. Not to say it doesn't matter, only to say it is not as important as the virtue of chastity.