Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on October 10, 2017, 09:08:56 AM
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is there a right to the Jєωιѕн state?
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"Pax Christi, in regno Christi"
(I think that's correct Latin, though I'm hardly a scholar.)
Signed,
DZ P
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The poll question, "do you recognize Isreal as legitimate?" and the question asked in the opening post, "is there a right to the Jєωιѕн state?" are two very different questions.
What specifically is being asked?
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:laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1:........................... :laugh2:
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I would've taken this thread a little more seriously, if it weren't for the "Hebe" cloaked in the world of anominity... ohh wait, business as usual...
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What do you mean by "legitimate"? The State of Israel essentially exists due to conquest, and support from a large and very powerful ally. Nations and even empires have been formed in this way countless times throughout history. Were they "legitimate"?
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What do you mean by "legitimate"? The State of Israel essentially exists due to conquest, and support from a large and very powerful ally. Nations and even empires have been formed in this way countless times throughout history. Were they "legitimate"?
They are neither theologically nor politically "legitimate". The above post is mine as well.
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is there a right to the Jєωιѕн state?
There is a right for the Jєωs in that state to convert to the Catholic Faith.
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Poche, more golf :applause: for you.
Well said.
DZ P
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There is a right for the Jєωs in that state to convert to the Catholic Faith.
Whatever next
I am shocked to find myself up voting poche.
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They are neither theologically nor politically "legitimate". The above post is mine as well.
No argument from me on the theological point. But what causes Israel to be politically "illegitimate"? As I said, conquest has always been a legitimate means of creating or expanding a state, historically speaking. Although Israel was created by the UN, they fought to make it a reality, and then conquered more lands to expand it. Not pretty, but not "illegitimate" either.
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No argument from me on the theological point. But what causes Israel to be politically "illegitimate"? As I said, conquest has always been a legitimate means of creating or expanding a state, historically speaking. Although Israel was created by the UN, they fought to make it a reality, and then conquered more lands to expand it. Not pretty, but not "illegitimate" either.
The heck you say... "Balfor Declaration" mean anything to you?
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The heck you say... "Balfor Declaration" mean anything to you?
1. Conquest via what means?
("Iusus Bellae", for one, is almost certainly applicable here, but let's see.)
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1. Conquest via what means?
("Iusus Bellae", for one, is almost certainly applicable here, but let's see.)
"Let's see," indeed...
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S. Augustine also comes to mind, prompted by the word "legitimate"; "An unjust law, is no law at all."
DZ P
That unsticky box has got to go the way of the dodo.
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"Let's see," indeed...
So how is it if I jack your stuff it's illegal and immoral, but if a country does it...?
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So how is it if I jack your stuff it's illegal and immoral, but if a country does it...?
Imperialistic Jєω "privilege?"
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No argument from me on the theological point. But what causes Israel to be politically "illegitimate"? As I said, conquest has always been a legitimate means of creating or expanding a state, historically speaking. Although Israel was created by the UN, they fought to make it a reality, and then conquered more lands to expand it. Not pretty, but not "illegitimate" either.
They were given land which was not the giver's to give. When you are a custodian of someone else's property and you unlawfully give to a third party, that is nothing less than theft. And besides the modern Jєωs are not a "people", they are a mongrelized alien race which has little connection to the ancient Hebrews and even less of a right to claim the Holy Land as their inheritance.
In short, in temporal terms, legitimate is synonomous with lawfulness, and in the end what is and is not lawful issues from the natural law.
Pius X would not recognize that entity because it was not legitimate, and its creation was a violation of God's law and decrees. These things matter here among Christians, I would assume.
You base your claim upon the UN recognizing them, but that is ludicrous because the UN is illigitimate in and of itself, and was created largly according to Jєωιѕн principles and under the influence and power of Jєωs and Masonry, then and now.
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So how is it if I jack your stuff it's illegal and immoral, but if a country does it...?
If we are going to go by this standard, then there are no countries in the world that are "legitimate" today.
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So the UN gave land that wasn’t theirs to give. Whose land was it? Certainly not the Arab Muslims, as they took it illegitimately from the Crusader states. But of course the Crusaders took it from the Arabs. But the Arabs took it from the Byzantines, who succeeded the Romans. But the Romans took it from the Jєωs. But the Jєωs revolted against the Seleucid Empire, who succeeded the Macedonians. But the Macedonians took it from the Persians, and so on and so on and so on.
So, whose land it is?
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Mine above,
JP
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"Io come capo della chiesa non posso dirle altra cosa. Gli Ebrei non hanno riconosciuto nostro Signore, perciò non possiamo riconoscere il popolo ebreo" -Pope St. Pius X
As the head of the Church I cannot tell you anything different. The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people
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If we are going to go by this standard, then there are no countries in the world that are "legitimate" today.
1. Careful with words like "no", "none", "never" etc.
2. If so, so what?
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"Io come capo della chiesa non posso dirle altra cosa. Gli Ebrei non hanno riconosciuto nostro Signore, perciò non possiamo riconoscere il popolo ebreo" -Pope St. Pius X
As the head of the Church I cannot tell you anything different. The Jєωs have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people
"...therefore..."
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Modern-day Israel is the fulfillment of prophesy. To oppose Israel is to oppose the will of God, who has not abandoned "the Chosen People".
"I say then: Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew.
... For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in." - Romans 11:1-25
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AnthonyB, modern day Israel,is not populated with Israelites. Hang around and read more threads and you will come to understand that Israelis are not the Chosen People of God. The Jєωs rejected Jesus, and now that chosen-ness belongs to faithful Catholics.
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Modern-day Israel is the fulfillment of prophesy. To oppose Israel is to oppose the will of God, who has not abandoned "the Chosen People".
There was a time when Marranos lurked in the shadows, but now they work in the light of day....
Or perhaps, did your Rabbi put you up to this?
Nevertheless, I'm sure Poche and graceseeker will welcome you with open arms...
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AnthonyB, modern day Israel,is not populated with Israelites. Hang around and read more threads and you will come to understand that Israelis are not the Chosen People of God. The Jєωs rejected Jesus, and now that chosen-ness belongs to faithful Catholics.
Although the Jєωs are no longer "the Chosen People", God has by no means abandoned them. The re-birth of the nation of Israel (in 1948) and the conversion of the Jєωs to Christ are two necessary conditions for the Second Coming of Christ.
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There was a time when Marranos lurked in the shadows, but now they work in the light of day....
Or perhaps, did your Rabbi put you up to this?
I don't know any Rabbi.
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Although the Jєωs are no longer "the Chosen People", God has by no means abandoned them. The re-birth of the nation of Israel (in 1948 and the conversion of the Jєωs to Christ are two necessary conditions for the Second Coming of Christ.
God does not abandon the Jєωs, but they abandon Him and He does not force them. In fact, according to the Jєωιѕн law, Israel has no right to exist "until the Messiah returns" and those Jєωs who populate Israel are either atheist (and so don't believe in God's promise) or they are going against their belief in God's plan.
The Catholic Church IS the new Israel and Jєωs must come into the Catholic Church if they are to be saved. Also the majority of the population of Israel are not descended from the Israelites but from the Kazars, a pagan nation who adopted Judaism as an political expedient about 700AD.
Here is what St Paul has to say.
Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Romans Chapter 9
The apostle's concern for the Jєωs. God's election is free and not confined to their nation.
[1] I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost: [2] That I have great sadness, and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] For I wished myself to be an anathema* from Christ, for my brethren, who are my kinsmen according to the flesh, [4] Who are Israelites, to whom belongeth the adoption as of children, and the glory, and the testament, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises: [5] Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen. [6] Not as though the word of God hath miscarried. For all are not Israelites that are of Israel:
*[3] "Anathema": A curse. The apostle's concern and love for his countrymen the Jєωs was so great, that he was willing to suffer even an anathema, or curse, for their sake; or any evil that could come upon him, without his offending God.
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Check out http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/judaism/index.htm
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The Jєωs were led to the land of Canaan by God himself through Abraham
No. Abraham and his family were led to Canaan by God. Then, following the escape from Egypt, God led Abraham's progeny, the Israelites/Hebrews back to Canaan. There were no "Jєωs" until after the death of King Solomon when the United Monarchy split into the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah (from where the term "Jєω" comes from).
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Who Is The True Israel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fax0xJgDMr0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fax0xJgDMr0)
Who’s the true Israel, the “Israel of God?”
If you look at a map, you won’t find the “Israel of God.”
You’ll only see the genocidal state of Israel. What’s the capital? Tel Aviv or Jerusalem?
After sucking up to Sheldon Adelson, John Hagee says Jerusalem’s the capital. He’s just a useful goy.
[Clip: “I consider the Adelsons some of the greatest citizens in the United States of America for all the good they do for this nation and the Jєωιѕн people around the world. The fact is, Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel for 3,000 years. That’s before Washington existed and before Barak Obama was a community organizer in Chicago.”]
You stupid ass. Jerusalem was not the sovereign capital of Israel for 3,000 years, it was mostly a tributary of surrounding empires.
And here’s your ‘holy’ Jerusalem, Mr Hagee…spiritually called, “Sodom and Gomorrah.”
That’s right. In the New Testament book of The Revelation, the Jєωιѕн Jerusalem is called Sodom and Gomorrah.
More to the point, it’s called “Sodom and Egypt,” citing the Old Testament enemies of the Israel of God.
The book of Revelation also shows Jєωιѕн Jerusalem to be the enemy of the Israel of God by identifying it as the place “where Christ was crucified.”
With no hope in sight, God soon destroyed the Jєωιѕн capital, described in The Revelation as the woman drunk with the blood of Old and New Testament saints.
There are two Jerusalems, the Bible says.
The earthly Jerusalem, where Christ was crucified, and the heavenly Jerusalem, the Church.
It was at the EARTHLY JERUSALEM that the Jєωs cried out, “His blood be upon us and on our children,” when demanding Pilate to crucify Christ.
Jerusalem became a river of blood…and the blood keeps on flowing.
The “Israel of God,” says St Paul in Galatians, is not made up of Jєωs who circuмcise themselves and shed the blood of innocents.
It’s made up of angels, saints, and Christians–God’s “new creation”–who worship at the heavenly Jerusalem, “The Church.”
“You are come to the heavenly Jerusalem, to a company of angels, to the Church of the firstborn, to the spirits of just men made perfect,” says St Paul in the book of Hebrews.
The Church is the “Israel of God,” NOT Jєωs, who St Paul calls the “enemies of the Gospel.”
The first Christians, most of them former Jєωs, understood this.
But useful goys, like John Hagee, don’t have a clue.