Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on April 19, 2014, 06:28:42 PM
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Tomorrow is Easter Sunday, and I post this as it's looking more and more unlikely I cannot make it to Easter Vigil.
It is obviously a joy to celebrate in the Risen Christ, but the problem is at so many NO parishes, you see so many people that have come for their twice-a-year Mass attendance, when most likely they've been living as little of the Faith as possible.
Do they really care about God? Would they be going any other day of the year if the Resurrection of Our Most Blessed Lord were not the focus of the day? How many of them will go home and forget they ever went to Mass?
This is why I dread going to the Novus Ordo sometimes, especially on important holidays. There's reverent Novus Ordo Catholics, but a good percentage of them are a complete disease to the Church Christ founded if they'll go to Mass but only be there to be there. I bet if I took a poll of the people attending Novus Ordo Catholic parishes, there's a sizable lot of them that don't believe Jesus is God or that He is in the Precious Body & Blood, that He was without sin, that Catholicism is more than just a denomination, it's the One True Church.
There's so little reverence these days. So many of them should just stop trying to call themselves Catholic if they can't worship the Father and live a Catholic life. The Catholic faith does not end at Mass.
Iesus et Maria, semper Virginae sit semper vobiscuм.
-JdK.
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[10] Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[11] The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. [12] I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. [14] I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.
- The Gospel according to St. Luke, chapter xviii.
God bless you.
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NO
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Is it really important to make that judgement?
Most of us came from the NO, I don't know about other people but I didn't knowingly deny any doctrine during my time there. Many people are unfortunate victims but if they were taught and lead, they would embrace the Faith as it has always been taught.
The more interesting question is: Are they culpable? In many cases, no. There are still Catholics in the NO, and also many non-Catholics. We cannot lump them all together.
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Talking to novus ordo "Catholics" on a regular basis myself makes it clear to me that they stubbornly hold to their own vain ideas about God and religion, and that they hold to at least one heresy, usually many heresies. Their "Catholicism" is an illusion. They are far from the truth. They also have severe problems recognizing reality to be reality, and are often prideful fantasists devoid of charity. The modern world and its ideologies are the religion of the novus ordo, not Christianity.
Holding to even one heresy places you outside the church, and therefore to answer your question, no the N.O. are not Catholics. They are instead in some strange pre-Catholic stage before they come to the faith, along with all the other people who are supposedly of good will, who are willing to sacrifice for the greater good, who might belong to any cult or sect whatever but who end up in the Catholic church.
The N.O "Catholic" who holds to the faith without any heresies is the exception and not the rule, and they will always be elderly because the young who do this will go to Latin mass.
The conciliar church will mutate into a completely non-Catholic sect, if it has not done already, and the poison in the vatican will spread to all the members. Then the difference between who is Catholic and who is false Catholic will be very clear.
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I will also say that we will be judged according to what we know. From him that is given much, much is expected.
It is up to us, who have the fulness of the faith, to become saints. If we do this then the doctrine of the church is preserved in its most faithful members and the church has an example to lead all the ignorant, whether or not the ignorant call themselves "Catholic" or not.
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The Novus Ordo community is a mish-mash. There is a little of everything you can imagine.
The majority, I would guess, are outright protestants. Though, I don't suppose there is any single majority of any one brand of Protestantism.
Many are pagans, of the New Age type.
There is a sizable number who are atheists, have no faith at all, but attend the Novus Ordo for various social reasons.
And there are probable others I don't have the imagination to characterize.
And lastly, there is a tiny remnant who have the Catholic Faith or are in the process of finding the Catholic Faith. These are the people who, during their lives, often find traditional chapels and escape the Novus Ordo.
Sadly, this multiplicity of faiths can be found amongst both the Novus Ordo "faithful" and the Novus Ordo clergy, though the number of Catholics amongst the clergy is exceedingly small.
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Circuмstances beyond my control prevented me from going to Mass today. Sigh. Maybe I was doing myself a favor by avoiding the Novus Ordo.
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Circuмstances beyond my control prevented me from going to Mass today. Sigh. Maybe I was doing myself a favor by avoiding the Novus Ordo.
Dont worry about it. I can only go to mass once a week, and I hate missing the true mass.
I asked a priest what I should do in situations when I cant get to mass ( I told him that I might not be able to come to mass for the forseeable future). He said to read my missal, ( I dont have a missal), so he said instead to say an extra rosary.
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Circuмstances beyond my control prevented me from going to Mass today. Sigh. Maybe I was doing myself a favor by avoiding the Novus Ordo.
Dont worry about it. I can only go to mass once a week, and I hate missing the true mass.
I asked a priest what I should do in situations when I cant get to mass ( I told him that I might not be able to come to mass for the forseeable future). He said to read my missal, ( I dont have a missal), so he said instead to say an extra rosary.
http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/missale-romanum-1962-pdf.html
Happy reading S.G. !!
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I think it really depends.
I was N O and had no idea I was basically a total heretic until God saved my son and I begged to know truth. Then, I naturally ended up in the latin mass with fssp, then after more study, sspx. Then after more study, a resistance supporting sspx er. (They haven't given in yet!)
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Do novus ordo Catholics have the faith?
A better question would be to ask how many of us here at CathInfo are praying for the converstion of novus ordites.
If a novus ordite is following the advice of his church and it's lay leaders and women eucharistic ministers and heeding the visiting presider who thinks that as long as you are a good person, God will love you then that person is in danger.
These are tumultuous times!
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On the vigil of Palm Sunday I was in a Novus Ordo foyer and not really paying attention. When they read the gospel though with the responses I was in tears. In over thirty years that had to be the most beautiful touching passage I ever heard in any type of church service. I heard the gospel accounts many times but I really felt like I understood what had happened and the actions of the different people.
I went to the baptism Sat night and when the Gloria was sang with the bells and the lights it was beautiful and so encouraging. I only wish the beautiful music could have lasted longer. I felt grieved that we don't have times to single music like that.
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I grew up in the Novus Ordo. Looking back on my time there, I cannot remember ever encountering the true faith or knowing anyone who seemed to have the true faith. All you have to do to know there is little or no faith in the Novus Ordo is to look at the school uniforms the girls wear. They call themselves Catholic yet they dress like porn stars. There may be some older people in the Novus Ordo who were raised before Vatican II who learned the faith and still believe it and there may be a few children who were taught the faith by their parents. But there are few of them.
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And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!
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And lastly, there is a tiny remnant who have the Catholic Faith or are in the process of finding the Catholic Faith. These are the people who, during their lives, often find traditional chapels and escape the Novus Ordo.
Honestly, if it weren't for my husband I'd probably still be there. But that's not to say that I wouldn't have been open to hearing about Tradition and the real Faith. I think the major challenge is getting the message out there. It's not so easy when most NO forums don't let you speak about it and most NO parishes don't even have the TLM.
The modernists really did a number on us, didn't they?
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And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!
Yes. We are all pharisees for preferring the true faith to the Novus Ordo. I guess you must believe that the Novus Ordo religion is the true religion. Otherwise your comment doesn't make sense to me. :popcorn:
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And I just had a NOer tell me elsewhere that every town that has a Catholic Church has the TLM.
Seriously, they are so ignorant.
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As Pope Leo XIII wrote, if you deny just one iota of the faith, you don't have it at all. Since Novus Ordites don't have the fulness of the Catholic faith, how do they have it?
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And I just had a NOer tell me elsewhere that every town that has a Catholic Church has the TLM.
Seriously, they are so ignorant.
Any priest who hasn't read Pascendi is ignorant, too.
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From 1970's exorcism
Amazon.com - Warning from Beyond - Bonaventure Meyer
TRADITIONALISTS
Exorcist: In the name...!
Demon Beelzebub: There are numbers of “traditionalists”, as many lay people as priests, who are full of self-righteousness, who are steeped in a kind of new phariseeism. They say, and sometimes they preach: “We are the good ones, we are the just, the rest are not worth much any more. We will go to Heaven.” That is pretty close to the sects: they say the same thing. Those up there (he points upward) do not like this behavior at all.. They do not love men very much who are righteous in their own eyes.
If, in this book, it has been necessary to speak about the Mass and about the Church, and amongst other things, the Mass of Saint Pius V, that does not mean to say that certain “traditionalists” should exalt themselves above the modernists, as if they were the only ones who know how to make a sound judgment, in a suitable way, and with all the necessary competence. That is not what this book is all about. It is simply intended to expose all the abuses in the Church, such as they exist today.
But, to complete the picture, we must still say this: The priests who say: “It is better for you to stay at home rather than go to such Masses”, are making a mistake. If the Mass is degraded to that point where the priest himself no longer believes in the words of the Consecration, and no longer pronounces the words as they should be pronounced, if he no longer has the intention of consecrating, then the host is not consecrated, it is true... but, for all that, people can still pray in the church.
I have to say this also: they are defrauded of Christ and of the fullness of the graces, it is true, but certain graces are still attached to it. Especially when good Christians, of deep faith, go to Mass and Communion full of devotion, with the intention of receiving Christ, then Heaven is fair enough not to say simply: “Because the priest is not doing things properly, there will be no graces here!” Those people nevertheless do receive certain graces.[54]
E: Do these people fulfill their duty to the Lord?
B: If the people have the opportunity of going to a Mass of Saint Pius V, then Heaven prefers that, very much so. But if there is no other possibility, they may go to another Mass. After the Mass of Saint Pius V in Latin,[55] the Tridentine Mass[56] in the vernacular comes in second place, provided that it comprises the totality of the words of the Tridentine Mass as far as this is possible. Only after these, in third place, comes the New Mass. But those people, if they do not know these things and are of good faith, nevertheless fulfill their duty to the Lord, in so far as that is their intention.
On the other hand, if they know very well that a kilometer further away, they would find a Mass of Saint Pius V, and if they say to themselves: “Bah! That, is too far away for me, I am not going to run over there!”; and if they know very well that that would be better, then we have a different situation. Then, they have lost out enormously through negligence. They should have gone that kilometer. Do you know (in a tearful voice) how far we would go, if we were still able to share in such great graces? Ah! We would travel to the ends of the earth, if we still had a chance! We do not wish to imply by this, that the other Masses are as good. We have already said enough about which Mass Those up there prefer (he points upward).
We have to reveal the error which many priests are making. It is a fundamental error to instill into men that they must not go to any New Mass, that it comes from the devil, etc... That also is throwing the baby away with the bath-water, it is going to the opposite extreme. Never does such a condemnation have any place under the mantle of love of neighbor. In these circuмstances there are modernists who have love of neighbor, who are sometimes better than such “traditionalists” who exalt themselves above others. We are obliged to say that as part of this... and everything we have just said about the Sacraments and other subjects...
And it should also be said that there are many “traditionalists” who are Pharisees. Otherwise, the modernists will think that all the “traditionalists” should be lumped together, that (all) the “traditionalists” are fanatics, rebellious fanatics, and will fight them with every means... Now we do not wish to speak any more (he grumbles).
E: In the name of the Blessed Virgin Mary...!
B: This is the way it is: Those up there (he points upward) love all their children, even if they have fallen into error. If, under the cloak of obedience, because they no longer know what they ought to do, they follow the opinions of. the bishops and the priests, then it is hardly their fault. If they act in all good faith, it will not be held to their account so strictly, although these circuмstances are so frightful, frightful, frightful.
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I don't know about you, but I don't trust Beelzebub.
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Anyone who outright states that Novus Ordo Catholics don't have the faith, doesn't have the faith. There are plenty of saints in the Novus Ordo, not many, but I've personally known saintly people who've had supernatural experiences (e.g. during first communion) and I knew a pious priest (ordained in the new rite) who was a genuine miracle worker. Most people make sensual and emotional judgements on the Novus Ordo based on personal experiences. In a place like the USA you'll find 98% of NO Catholics are ignorant because the USA has a high frequency of apostate bishops and priests. Most dioceses are horrible, the NO Mass is spiritually dry and banal, the English translations of the LotH is a bore to pray, but in the midst of this apostasy there are still pockets of faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo. These faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo don't need our spite or haughtiness, they need our prayers and charity. Many of them won't leave their parish because it's their rightful spiritual home, many don't know about tradition, most of them suffer from bad and scandalous priests and lay people as much as we do.
Traditional Catholics have their problems and aren't perfect either. Remember the SGG scandal? Due to the Francis papacy I tested the waters of sedevacantism and, though some SV's are good people, I found a lack of hope and charity in that community (not just internet but real life), and the lack of charity in particular alarmed me greatly and was the main reason I didn't embrace it when I was very open to it. I also rejected and was greatly put off by the Resistance movement for the same reasons (along with paranoia, conspiratorialism, and calumny).
As for the Pharisee thing, that slander against traditionalist is absurd and proves the ignorance of Holy Scripture by the accuser. Pharisees weren't bad because they were Holy, Jesus said we must be holier than the Pharisees, they were bad because they didn't ask God for any help. The publican asked God for mercy, the pharisee didn't ask God for anything and was content with himself. The majority of modern pharisees are Novus Ordo Catholics and not traditionalists. The majority of NO Catholics (I speak from a global experience and not an America-only experience like most people on this board) think they're basically good people are going to heaven, many think they're going to heaven because they never killed anybody and aren't Adolf Hitler. This sort of sin against the Holy Ghost is very prominent amongst N.O. Catholics. I haven't met one traditionalist who thinks he's "basically a good person" because he "never killed anyone" and "is not Adolf Hitler", if anything traditionalists are true publicans. Every day Catholics (Jєωs) think they're unpatriotic traitors (TLM instead of N.O.) who serve a foreign government (The Pius era Church) that is hostile to their people (Vatican II era Church). While every day Novus Ordo Catholics stand in the middle of the sanctuary (something normal in your average N.O liturgy) saying "Thank you God for making me basically a good person; I do not murder, I do not rape, I'm not Adolf Hitler...", the despised publicans (traditionalists) are in the confessional asking for God's forgiveness and mercy on a weekly basis.
Just because you have the legitimate Roman Mass doesn't mean you're going to be a good Catholic. Hans Kung celebrated the TLM as a priest, and he's Hans Kung. The biggest crisis in the Church isn't liturgical, disciplinary, or doctrinal. This crisis is primarily a spiritual crisis. Both N.O. and Traditionalists need to open up Three Conversions of the Spiritual Life or Dark Night of the Soul and get their relationship with God in order, myself included. That's what we're here for.
I wouldn't be surprised if more traditionalists benefit from the Divine Mercy Sunday promise than N.O. Catholics. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if more N.O Catholics went to Heaven than traditionalists. To whom much is given much is required.
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Novus ordo is quite anemic of the true Catholic Faith. The novus ordo is much closer to the lutherans, episcopalians and anglicans than it is the true One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!
Stop being so self-righteous. You are the Pharisee!
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Anyone who outright states that Novus Ordo Catholics don't have the faith, doesn't have the faith. There are plenty of saints in the Novus Ordo, not many, but I've personally known saintly people who've had supernatural experiences (e.g. during first communion) and I knew a pious priest (ordained in the new rite) who was a genuine miracle worker. Most people make sensual and emotional judgements on the Novus Ordo based on personal experiences. In a place like the USA you'll find 98% of NO Catholics are ignorant because the USA has a high frequency of apostate bishops and priests. Most dioceses are horrible, the NO Mass is spiritually dry and banal, the English translations of the LotH is a bore to pray, but in the midst of this apostasy there are still pockets of faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo. These faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo don't need our spite or haughtiness, they need our prayers and charity. Many of them won't leave their parish because it's their rightful spiritual home, many don't know about tradition, most of them suffer from bad and scandalous priests and lay people as much as we do.
Traditional Catholics have their problems and aren't perfect either. Remember the SGG scandal? Due to the Francis papacy I tested the waters of sedevacantism and, though some SV's are good people, I found a lack of hope and charity in that community (not just internet but real life), and the lack of charity in particular alarmed me greatly and was the main reason I didn't embrace it when I was very open to it. I also rejected and was greatly put off by the Resistance movement for the same reasons (along with paranoia, conspiratorialism, and calumny).
As for the Pharisee thing, that slander against traditionalist is absurd and proves the ignorance of Holy Scripture by the accuser. Pharisees weren't bad because they were Holy, Jesus said we must be holier than the Pharisees, they were bad because they didn't ask God for any help. The publican asked God for mercy, the pharisee didn't ask God for anything and was content with himself. The majority of modern pharisees are Novus Ordo Catholics and not traditionalists. The majority of NO Catholics (I speak from a global experience and not an America-only experience like most people on this board) think they're basically good people are going to heaven, many think they're going to heaven because they never killed anybody and aren't Adolf Hitler. This sort of sin against the Holy Ghost is very prominent amongst N.O. Catholics. I haven't met one traditionalist who thinks he's "basically a good person" because he "never killed anyone" and "is not Adolf Hitler", if anything traditionalists are true publicans. Every day Catholics (Jєωs) think they're unpatriotic traitors (TLM instead of N.O.) who serve a foreign government (The Pius era Church) that is hostile to their people (Vatican II era Church). While every day Novus Ordo Catholics stand in the middle of the sanctuary (something normal in your average N.O liturgy) saying "Thank you God for making me basically a good person; I do not murder, I do not rape, I'm not Adolf Hitler...", the despised publicans (traditionalists) are in the confessional asking for God's forgiveness and mercy on a weekly basis.
Just because you have the legitimate Roman Mass doesn't mean you're going to be a good Catholic. Hans Kung celebrated the TLM as a priest, and he's Hans Kung. The biggest crisis in the Church isn't liturgical, disciplinary, or doctrinal. This crisis is primarily a spiritual crisis. Both N.O. and Traditionalists need to open up Three Conversions of the Spiritual Life or Dark Night of the Soul and get their relationship with God in order, myself included. That's what we're here for.
I wouldn't be surprised if more traditionalists benefit from the Divine Mercy Sunday promise than N.O. Catholics. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if more N.O Catholics went to Heaven than traditionalists. To whom much is given much is required.
This post was written by a poster who is filled with hate toward his fellow Catholics and is also likely either a liar or someone who engages in wishful thinking and fantasy.
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And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!
Soulguard did not post this, as the thumbs down register will prove.
I think some trads are pharisees, but most are as Catholic as can be expected when one has the sacraments. We are not all living like saints, but many take their church for granted and lose interest in genuine conversion. All doctrine and no love, when in fact the doctrine is love, but they dont have it, prefering instead to be walking dictionaries, pharisees, rather than put the letter of the law into full effect by love of God and neihbour.
But the novus ordo "Catholics" are not Catholic at all. It is self delusion if you see otherwise.
Just look at them or talk to them. They have no interest whatsoever in the truth or in God. Their piety is an outward appearance and they dont have genuine conversion either.
The way i see it, the pharisees from tradition and pharisees from the novus ordo are of the same character. One type holds to the old ways, one type exxagerates loyalty to the pope and council, but either way, neither of them actually have genuine conversion of heart to the faith. But the traditional pharisee is better, because they at least are grounded in the faith. If only they loved it as it should be loved.
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The biggest problem in the novus ordo is the belief that other religions are salvific and this is just dressed up indifferentism.
Pope St John Paul II, patron saint of indifferentists, was himself an indifferentist.
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Ah, yes.
Let us come up with a generalization and summarily judge 1.2 BILLION individuals.
With such a small group, there's not much variation among them.
(Note: I'm being sarcastic!)
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Ah, yes.
Let us come up with a generalization and summarily judge 1.2 BILLION individuals.
With such a small group, there's not much variation among them.
(Note: I'm being sarcastic!)
That's what makes this post so fun! :roll-laugh1:
The more over the top the post, the better! :cheers:
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This is a thread deserving 287 replies and 15,500 views, not a phony
pope michael and his phony seminary.
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Anyone who outright states that Novus Ordo Catholics don't have the faith, doesn't have the faith. There are plenty of saints in the Novus Ordo, not many, but I've personally known saintly people who've had supernatural experiences (e.g. during first communion) and I knew a pious priest (ordained in the new rite) who was a genuine miracle worker. Most people make sensual and emotional judgements on the Novus Ordo based on personal experiences. In a place like the USA you'll find 98% of NO Catholics are ignorant because the USA has a high frequency of apostate bishops and priests. Most dioceses are horrible, the NO Mass is spiritually dry and banal, the English translations of the LotH is a bore to pray, but in the midst of this apostasy there are still pockets of faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo. These faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo don't need our spite or haughtiness, they need our prayers and charity. Many of them won't leave their parish because it's their rightful spiritual home, many don't know about tradition, most of them suffer from bad and scandalous priests and lay people as much as we do.
Traditional Catholics have their problems and aren't perfect either. Remember the SGG scandal? Due to the Francis papacy I tested the waters of sedevacantism and, though some SV's are good people, I found a lack of hope and charity in that community (not just internet but real life), and the lack of charity in particular alarmed me greatly and was the main reason I didn't embrace it when I was very open to it. I also rejected and was greatly put off by the Resistance movement for the same reasons (along with paranoia, conspiratorialism, and calumny).
As for the Pharisee thing, that slander against traditionalist is absurd and proves the ignorance of Holy Scripture by the accuser. Pharisees weren't bad because they were Holy, Jesus said we must be holier than the Pharisees, they were bad because they didn't ask God for any help. The publican asked God for mercy, the pharisee didn't ask God for anything and was content with himself. The majority of modern pharisees are Novus Ordo Catholics and not traditionalists. The majority of NO Catholics (I speak from a global experience and not an America-only experience like most people on this board) think they're basically good people are going to heaven, many think they're going to heaven because they never killed anybody and aren't Adolf Hitler. This sort of sin against the Holy Ghost is very prominent amongst N.O. Catholics. I haven't met one traditionalist who thinks he's "basically a good person" because he "never killed anyone" and "is not Adolf Hitler", if anything traditionalists are true publicans. Every day Catholics (Jєωs) think they're unpatriotic traitors (TLM instead of N.O.) who serve a foreign government (The Pius era Church) that is hostile to their people (Vatican II era Church). While every day Novus Ordo Catholics stand in the middle of the sanctuary (something normal in your average N.O liturgy) saying "Thank you God for making me basically a good person; I do not murder, I do not rape, I'm not Adolf Hitler...", the despised publicans (traditionalists) are in the confessional asking for God's forgiveness and mercy on a weekly basis.
Just because you have the legitimate Roman Mass doesn't mean you're going to be a good Catholic. Hans Kung celebrated the TLM as a priest, and he's Hans Kung. The biggest crisis in the Church isn't liturgical, disciplinary, or doctrinal. This crisis is primarily a spiritual crisis. Both N.O. and Traditionalists need to open up Three Conversions of the Spiritual Life or Dark Night of the Soul and get their relationship with God in order, myself included. That's what we're here for.
I wouldn't be surprised if more traditionalists benefit from the Divine Mercy Sunday promise than N.O. Catholics. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if more N.O Catholics went to Heaven than traditionalists. To whom much is given much is required.
This post was written by a poster who is filled with hate toward his fellow Catholics and is also likely either a liar or someone who engages in wishful thinking and fantasy.
There is a lot to digest in this post.
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The trend of the novus ordo catholics are in the direction of atheism
In the next 20 years, whatever is left of their faith will be drained out.
We can see this through the closing of parishes, many historical that
were built by previous generations of Catholic whom had 100% of the
faith. Everything is up for ridicule as the rosary, devotions, the Blessed
Sacrament and the mass itself.
If their are still people attending church, it is just a gathering place
to meet friends and people and the entertainment. God is left out of
the equation.
Some will violently disagree with my conclusions. I seen all the
changes since they begun unfolding in 1964. And this the logical
direction where the novus ordo Catholicism is going to.
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Some will violently disagree with my conclusions. I seen all the changes since they begun unfolding in 1964. And this the logical direction where the novus ordo Catholicism is going to.
Not I. However, I will continue to maintain that there will be a handful of Catholics in the Conciliar sect until that sect is completely destroyed. I think the papacy will be restored at some point--and, something that I thought about recently, it may happen when the Swiss Guards figure out that the man they thought was pope is an impostor and they are the ones who confine him and demand a return to Catholicism in the Vatican!
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Mr. Anonymous SOULGUARD, the 1970 exorcism is promoted by the
Necedah sect. All true Catholic Exorcists know they do not directly question
the devil and evil spirits unless they volunteer information which could be a
lie itself.
This does not denies that their is some truth. Even a casual examinations
of novus ordo and Traditional Catholics there are Pharisees
among us.
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I think the OP has a worthwhile question. At this point, one has to assume simply as a realistic generalization that a very large proportion of the 1.2 billion NO-goers materially lack the Faith, and though perhaps it is not their fault as laity, and therefore one is careful not to judge their desire to be Catholic, still, isn't God sending the Catholics among them graces to realize the truth? Are they rejecting these graces, or is God not sending them? Or is there some other theological explanation for why they remain in the NO? I don't know, but in my opinion it's an interesting question, and not one that merits veiled accusations of pharisaism.
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I think some of them, through no fault of their own, don't know any better. The average vernacular Mass attender probably does not know what the Latin Mass or Summorum Pontificuм is, mostly because it's never brought up there. To them, the only way out of the Novus Ordo is to go Protestant.
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Mr. Anonymous SOULGUARD, the 1970 exorcism is promoted by the
Necedah sect. All true Catholic Exorcists know they do not directly question
the devil and evil spirits unless they volunteer information which could be a
lie itself.
This does not denies that their is some truth. Even a casual examinations
of novus ordo and Traditional Catholics there are Pharisees
among us.
Shut up. I am not the anonymous poster from this thread.
Ask Matthew to clarify this if you dont believe me. I have nothing to lose.
:boxer:
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People who accuse others of "Phariseeism" know absolutely nothing about the Pharisees.
Well, guess what?
Jesus Himself told his apostles to do what the Pharisees say but not do what the Pharisees do.
Our Lord assigned great respect to the teaching of the Pharisees.
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I would say that after years of being frustrated by our circuмstances and observing my fellow parishioners, that few know anything about Tradition, or the fact that Latin Masses are held throughout the country in various places. Most people aren't on the internet searching and studying and reading like we are. I don't know if I would have ever heard about Traditionalism if it weren't for the Internet.