And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!

Yes. We are all pharisees for preferring the true faith to the Novus Ordo.  I guess you must believe that the Novus Ordo religion is the true religion. Otherwise your comment doesn't make sense to me.

As Pope Leo XIII wrote, if you deny just one iota of the faith, you don't have it at all. Since Novus Ordites don't have the fulness of the Catholic faith, how do they have it?

From 1970's exorcism


Amazon.com - Warning from Beyond - Bonaventure Meyer







TRADITIONALISTS

Exorcist: In the name...!

Demon Beelzebub: There are numbers of “traditionalists”, as many lay people as priests, who are full of self-righteousness, who are steeped in a kind of new phariseeism. They say, and sometimes they preach: “We are the good ones, we are the just, the rest are not worth much any more. We will go to Heaven.” That is pretty close to the sects: they say the same thing. Those up there (he points upward) do not like this behavior at all.. They do not love men very much who are righteous in their own eyes.

If, in this book, it has been necessary to speak about the Mass and about the Church, and amongst other things, the Mass of Saint Pius V, that does not mean to say that certain “traditionalists” should exalt themselves above the modernists, as if they were the only ones who know how to make a sound judgment, in a suitable way, and with all the necessary competence. That is not what this book is all about. It is simply intended to expose all the abuses in the Church, such as they exist today.

But, to complete the picture, we must still say this: The priests who say: “It is better for you to stay at home rather than go to such Masses”, are making a mistake. If the Mass is degraded to that point where the priest himself no longer believes in the words of the Consecration, and no longer pronounces the words as they should be pronounced, if he no longer has the intention of consecrating, then the host is not consecrated, it is true... but, for all that, people can still pray in the church.

I have to say this also: they are defrauded of Christ and of the fullness of the graces, it is true, but certain graces are still attached to it. Especially when good Christians, of deep faith, go to Mass and Communion full of devotion, with the intention of receiving Christ, then Heaven is fair enough not to say simply: “Because the priest is not doing things properly, there will be no graces here!” Those people nevertheless do receive certain graces.[54]

E: Do these people fulfill their duty to the Lord?

B: If the people have the opportunity of going to a Mass of Saint Pius V, then Heaven prefers that, very much so. But if there is no other possibility, they may go to another Mass. After the Mass of Saint Pius V in Latin,[55] the Tridentine Mass[56] in the vernacular comes in second place, provided that it comprises the totality of the words of the Tridentine Mass as far as this is possible. Only after these, in third place, comes the New Mass. But those people, if they do not know these things and are of good faith, nevertheless fulfill their duty to the Lord, in so far as that is their intention.

On the other hand, if they know very well that a kilometer further away, they would find a Mass of Saint Pius V, and if they say to themselves: “Bah! That, is too far away for me, I am not going to run over there!”; and if they know very well that that would be better, then we have a different situation. Then, they have lost out enormously through negligence. They should have gone that kilometer. Do you know (in a tearful voice) how far we would go, if we were still able to share in such great graces? Ah! We would travel to the ends of the earth, if we still had a chance! We do not wish to imply by this, that the other Masses are as good. We have already said enough about which Mass Those up there prefer (he points upward).

We have to reveal the error which many priests are making. It is a fundamental error to instill into men that they must not go to any New Mass, that it comes from the devil, etc... That also is throwing the baby away with the bath-water, it is going to the opposite extreme. Never does such a condemnation have any place under the mantle of love of neighbor. In these circuмstances there are modernists who have love of neighbor, who are sometimes better than such “traditionalists” who exalt themselves above others. We are obliged to say that as part of this... and everything we have just said about the Sacraments and other subjects...

And it should also be said that there are many “traditionalists” who are Pharisees. Otherwise, the modernists will think that all the “traditionalists” should be lumped together, that (all) the “traditionalists” are fanatics, rebellious fanatics, and will fight them with every means... Now we do not wish to speak any more (he grumbles).

E: In the name of the Blessed Virgin Mary...!

B: This is the way it is: Those up there (he points upward) love all their children, even if they have fallen into error. If, under the cloak of obedience, because they no longer know what they ought to do, they follow the opinions of. the bishops and the priests, then it is hardly their fault. If they act in all good faith, it will not be held to their account so strictly, although these circuмstances are so frightful, frightful, frightful.

Anyone who outright states that Novus Ordo Catholics don't have the faith, doesn't have the faith. There are plenty of saints in the Novus Ordo, not many, but I've personally known saintly people who've had supernatural experiences (e.g. during first communion) and I knew a pious priest (ordained in the new rite) who was a genuine miracle worker. Most people make sensual and emotional judgements on the Novus Ordo based on personal experiences. In a place like the USA you'll find 98% of NO Catholics are ignorant because the USA has a high frequency of apostate bishops and priests. Most dioceses are horrible, the NO Mass is spiritually dry and banal, the English translations of the LotH is a bore to pray, but in the midst of this apostasy there are still pockets of faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo. These faithful Catholics in the Novus Ordo don't need our spite or haughtiness, they need our prayers and charity. Many of them won't leave their parish because it's their rightful spiritual home, many don't know about tradition, most of them suffer from bad and scandalous priests and lay people as much as we do.

Traditional Catholics have their problems and aren't perfect either. Remember the SGG scandal? Due to the Francis papacy I tested the waters of sedevacantism and, though some SV's are good people, I found a lack of hope and charity in that community (not just internet but real life), and the lack of charity in particular alarmed me greatly and was the main reason I didn't embrace it when I was very open to it. I also rejected and was greatly put off by the Resistance movement for the same reasons (along with paranoia, conspiratorialism, and calumny).

As for the Pharisee thing, that slander against traditionalist is absurd and proves the ignorance of Holy Scripture by the accuser. Pharisees weren't bad because they were Holy, Jesus said we must be holier than the Pharisees, they were bad because they didn't ask God for any help. The publican asked God for mercy, the pharisee didn't ask God for anything and was content with himself. The majority of modern pharisees are Novus Ordo Catholics and not traditionalists. The majority of NO Catholics (I speak from a global experience and not an America-only experience like most people on this board) think they're basically good people are going to heaven, many think they're going to heaven because they never killed anybody and aren't Adolf Hitler. This sort of sin against the Holy Ghost is very prominent amongst N.O. Catholics. I haven't met one traditionalist who thinks he's "basically a good person" because he "never killed anyone" and "is not Adolf Hitler", if anything traditionalists are true publicans. Every day Catholics (Jєωs) think they're unpatriotic traitors (TLM instead of N.O.) who serve a foreign government (The Pius era Church) that is hostile to their people (Vatican II era Church). While every day Novus Ordo Catholics stand in the middle of the sanctuary (something normal in your average N.O liturgy) saying "Thank you God for making me basically a good person; I do not murder, I do not rape, I'm not Adolf Hitler...", the despised publicans (traditionalists) are in the confessional asking for God's forgiveness and mercy on a weekly basis.

Just because you have the legitimate Roman Mass doesn't mean you're going to be a good Catholic. Hans Kung celebrated the TLM as a priest, and he's Hans Kung. The biggest crisis in the Church isn't liturgical, disciplinary, or doctrinal. This crisis is primarily a spiritual crisis. Both N.O. and Traditionalists need to open up Three Conversions of the Spiritual Life or Dark Night of the Soul and get their relationship with God in order, myself included. That's what we're here for.

I wouldn't be surprised if more traditionalists benefit from the Divine Mercy Sunday promise than N.O. Catholics. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if more N.O Catholics went to Heaven than traditionalists. To whom much is given much is required.

And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!

Stop being so self-righteous.  You are the Pharisee!

And pray for some traditionalists to humble themselves and shed their pharasaism!

Soulguard did not post this, as the thumbs down register will prove.
I think some trads are pharisees, but most are as Catholic as can be expected when one has the sacraments. We are not all living like saints, but many take their church for granted and lose interest in genuine conversion. All doctrine and no love, when in fact the doctrine is love, but they dont have it, prefering instead to be walking dictionaries, pharisees, rather than put the letter of the law into full effect by love of God and neihbour.

But the novus ordo "Catholics" are not Catholic at all. It is self delusion if you see otherwise.
Just look at them or talk to them. They have no interest whatsoever in the truth or in God. Their piety is an outward appearance and they dont have genuine conversion either.

The way i see it, the pharisees from tradition and pharisees from the novus ordo are of the same character. One type holds to the old ways, one type exxagerates loyalty to the pope and council, but either way, neither of them actually have genuine conversion of heart to the faith. But the traditional pharisee is better, because they at least are grounded in the faith. If only they loved it as it should be loved.

Ah, yes.

Let us come up with a generalization and summarily judge 1.2 BILLION individuals.

With such a small group, there's not much variation among them.

(Note: I'm being sarcastic!)