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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on August 28, 2022, 01:27:40 AM

Title: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on August 28, 2022, 01:27:40 AM
 Any advice in day trading?
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on August 28, 2022, 02:38:46 AM
No, but would like to learn about it.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on August 28, 2022, 05:39:49 AM
Any advice in day trading?
Same here.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: ServusInutilisDomini on August 28, 2022, 06:04:53 AM
My limited understanding of this topic suggests that earning a living from speculation is immoral.

I can't remember where I read it.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Ladislaus on August 28, 2022, 07:07:15 AM
I agree in finding the morality of the enterprise to be questionable.

I think that a traditional view of stocks is moral, where you're making an investment in a company and the getting a share of the profits in return (except of course most companies attempt to exact and unreasonable and immoral level of profit if possible).

But to turn these into commodities I find questionable.  So, for instance, our cost of products are sometimes artificially inflated by the trading by Jєωιѕн financial groups that add no value to the consumer.  Every time we pay $3-$4, a good share of that goes into the pockets of places like Goldman Sachs, who never touch the oil, from the moment it leaves the ground until the second the gas goes into our tanks.  But somehow they extract a good portion of that amount, when they have contributed absolutely no value at any point along the entire supply chain.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Stubborn on August 28, 2022, 10:09:29 AM
My limited understanding of this topic suggests that earning a living from speculation is immoral.

I can't remember where I read it.
I've heard this, but I cannot believe it's immoral, first of all because it is no more speculation then it is to open a business hoping people will buy your product. In fact, a lot more day traders lose all their money compared to business owners who go under.
 
 Day traders are only in a trade for seconds, sometimes minutes, only on rare occasions are they in a position longer than minutes.

Even then, the trade is taken based on certain signals the traders sees. No different than a guy opening a new gas station on a certain busy corner because he sees there are no other gas stations around. They both see signals i.e. have reasons for their decisions, but neither knows for sure if they will be a success. A Day trader will find out almost immediately if he made, lost, or broke even, whereas it will take much longer for the other guy.

The day trader plays zero part in having a vested interest in the company, and if they are short, they hope the company goes bankrupt and the stock dives to zero while they are in the trade.

If the day traders benefit anything, they benefit the market or stock (not the company) they are trading because they can add liquidity, which means they add trading volume, which means they help make it easier for others to  buy and sell the stock - which has nothing whatsoever to do with being vested in the company.

 No, I do not trade for a living, I just have an IRA and like to watch the markets when I can.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on August 28, 2022, 12:18:34 PM
If the day traders benefit anything, they benefit the market or stock (not the company) they are trading because they can add liquidity, which means they add trading volume, which means they help make it easier for others to  buy and sell the stock - which has nothing whatsoever to do with being vested in the company.


In other words, one man's loss is another man's gain.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: trad123 on August 28, 2022, 12:19:02 PM
The above post was mine.

Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJOWwfOQ3Sc
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Ladislaus on August 28, 2022, 12:36:31 PM
I've heard this, but I cannot believe it's immoral, first of all because it is no more speculation then it is to open a business hoping people will buy your product. In fact, a lot more day traders lose all their money compared to business owners who go under.

It's immoral based on the same principles St. Thomas applies to usury, where you make profit without providing any value.  And when people make money trading stocks it always comes at the expensive of someone else who's lost money.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Ladislaus on August 28, 2022, 12:39:56 PM
The above post was mine.

Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJOWwfOQ3Sc

Interesting.  I take back what I said about stocks being legit.  This explains how it was transformed early in the 20th century from being effectively an ownership stake into pretty much nothing (starting at about 3:55 in this great video).
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: trad123 on August 28, 2022, 12:47:36 PM
The creator of the video, Tan Liu, wrote a book called The Ponzi Factor

From the book:


Introduction



Quote
For A Moment, Ignore Everything You Know About Stocks, the investment system and everything that took place over the past 400 years. Imagine yourself in the early 1600s at a time when no one knew what stocks were yet, but they were about to be introduced as a new investment instrument.

You’re going to hear two proposals, and I want you to think about how the early investors would have reacted to the introduction of stocks.

Proposal One: A business owner approaches a group of investors and says, “I’m selling shares of my company. If you invest in my business, you’ll receive a note that says you own a piece of the company, and if the business makes money, you’ll receive a share of the profits. The note is transferable, so you can also sell it to other investors. If you’re lucky, you might even receive more than you paid.”

Proposal Two: A business owner says to a group of investors, “I’m selling shares of my company. When you invest, you’ll receive a note that says you own a piece of the company. However, you won’t receive any money from the business, and the company is not obligated to pay you anything, ever. But, you can make money by selling the note to other people. You might get lucky and get more than you paid.”

Now, which proposal do you think early investors would have considered, and which do you think they would have avoided? Which one sounds like a legitimate business investment, and which one sounds like a shady scam?

History shows that when stocks were first introduced to investors, they were designed to perform like investment proposal number one, where companies paid dividends and shared profits with investors.

But today, the common stocks that are being issued to investors behave like proposal number two, where shareholders receive nothing from the business, and the only realistic way investors can make money is by selling their shares to other investors.


One of the biggest myths about stocks is the idea that profits from stocks come from the earnings and growth of the underlying company. The assumption is, when a company makes money, they share the profits with their investors. But in practice, most public companies never pay dividends, and when they make money, which can be millions or even billions, they keep everything.

The reality is, profits from stocks come from other investors who are buying and selling stocks. When an investor buys a stock for $ 10 and sells it for $ 11, that $ 11 comes from another investor, someone who will then start hunting for yet another investor who will give him or her $ 12, and so on. This is actually a negative-sum situation because the underlying company isn’t involved in the transaction. The investors are just cannibalizing each other for profits, and there are fees attached to every transaction.





Chapter 6




Quote
(. . .)

There are supposed to be “two ways” for investors to make money with stocks.

One is through dividends, which is money that comes from business profits.

The second is through capital gains— the buy-low, sell-high gamble on possible stock value appreciation.

Profits from dividends are legitimate profits because they come from business activities and are paid by the underlying business. Profits from capital gains are Ponzi profits because they come from other investors. There is nothing wrong with a scenario where investors can make money from both dividends and capital gains. But there is something extremely wrong with a zero-sum scenario where the only guaranteed way investors can make money is by taking it from other investors with capital gains. And sadly, this is exactly how most stocks work in the current system.

The majority of the stock market is made up of common stocks, which are basically notes with the company’s name on them, but they don’t guarantee any dividends or payments. In some cases, like with Google’s class C shares, which make up the majority of the company’s shares, they don’t even come with voting rights. Common stock shareholders are not entitled to any operational profits from the business, and the only practical way investors can make money is by selling their shares to other investors using the Ponzi process.

There are exceptions, of course. Companies like Microsoft and McDonald’s have a history of paying regular dividends— whether the amounts paid are reasonable compared to the profits the companies earn can be subjective, but they do pay their investors on a regular basis. However, these are exceptions, and we can’t use exceptions to generalize what is the norm for common stocks in the overall market.

Finance people will argue that all common stockholders do have a “claim” to dividends, but this is not a legitimate claim. There is a difference between something that can happen versus something that is legitimately likely to happen. In practice, most public companies never pay dividends because they are not obligated to. They can always make up an excuse for why they can’t pay, and there are enough fine print and legal loopholes in their docuмents to let them get away with it. This is why companies like Google, which is about as mature and successful as a public company can get, have never paid dividends.

A shareholder’s “claim” to dividends is meaningless because the normal practice is; public companies do not pay dividends, and shareholders receive nothing from the business. A common stock in the open market is treated like a game of hot potato among investors. It gets passed around from player to player, no one wants to hold it as an end product, and every player wants more money back than they put in. The companies that issued the stocks won’t contribute any money to the game, but they’ll encourage the frenzy from the sidelines with phrases like “We’re going to make our share value grow and our shareholders happy!” This is why I refer to common stocks as Ponzi assets.

There are extremely rare situations where a company repurchases some of their own stocks or pays nonguaranteed dividends. But these unlikely events are unforeseeable and, for most companies, nonexistent. If it happened once, it might never happen again. And even if does occur, the amount of money the firm gives back is minuscule (like a small fraction of a penny on the dollar) compared to the profits they take and hoard from investors. Even finance people don’t consider these actions as sources of profit for stocks.

The legitimacy of an investment instrument needs to be judged by how the instruments behave on a regular basis— not by unscheduled events that may never occur. And what we can clearly observe from day to day are investors cannibalizing each other while the company they believe they own hoard profits. There is no way to predict “if” or “when” a company will pay dividends or buy back their own stocks. But what is predictable, certain, and observable is that if investors want to receive money for the stocks they are holding, the only foreseeable way it can happen is if they sell it to other investors and engage in the Ponzi process.

The reason why common stocks exist is because companies can use them to raise money they’ll never have to pay back.

Firms have the option of using bonds or preferred stocks to raise money as well, but those instruments would obligate the firm to repay what they borrowed or share profits (guaranteed dividends) with their investors. Those obligations do not legitimately exist with common stocks. There might be some language in the docuмents that make it sound like the company will repay their common stock investors at some point, but there’s nothing definitive, and firms can always find a way to avoid paying their investors.





Chapter 6 Continued




Quote
(. . .)

According to historians, the first stocks came into existence in the early 1600s in Europe, and the first joint-stock companies were in the shipping and trade business. The fact that the first stocks were related to the shipping industry was not a coincidence. If you think about it, shipping was an expensive and risky business that also had very low hands-on work involvement by owners. The owners secured the financing, but they didn’t have to go on the long voyages themselves.

The historian Ranald C. Michie described it as a situation where “Ownership and operation were divorced.”

 It was an ideal situation for silent investors— people who want to own a business without getting their hands dirty. And naturally, in return, investors also expected to receive a portion of the business profits. Back then, people didn’t get involved in something that didn’t pay dividends.

It is docuмented that companies like the Dutch East India Company— which was also believed to be the first joint-stock company to issue stocks— and the South Seas Company paid annual dividends that yielded between 12%– 62%. This means if the stock was $ 100 a share, the investor would receive anywhere between $ 12– $ 62 for every share he or she owned every year.

This shows that the first public companies didn’t just pay dividends, but they paid reasonable & regular dividends. Those companies didn’t pay something unscheduled and trivial, they shared a reasonable amount of profits with their investors and paid them on a regular basis. It shows how vital dividends were for the investors. And, it also shows how much the underlying companies respected their investors’ participation, ownership, and profit-sharing agreement.

The practice of paying dividends was not unique to early European stocks; it was also the norm for American companies until the twentieth century. According to Dr. Bryan Taylor, from Global Financial Data Inc., “virtually all” stock returns during the 1800s came from dividends, not capital gains. Dr. Taylor also says that “the behavior of financial markets in the 1800s, because of the returns to investors, was fundamentally different before and after 1914,” and mentions that one reason why dividends were important was that most people invested in bonds at the time and thought stocks were risky. Dividends weren’t just important to the early European investors; they were an intrinsic part of early US stocks as well.

As I mentioned earlier, there are two ways investors can make money with stocks: dividends and capital gains. These two profiteering methods are fundamentally different. Profits from dividends come from the business, whereas profits from capital gains come from other investors. This is a material difference that regulators and people in finance ignore, but it is literally the difference between legitimate investment profits and Ponzi profits, and the difference between a real equity instrument and a gambling instrument.

If you eliminate dividends from stocks, the stock becomes a fundamentally different financial instrument. History clearly shows that stocks were designed to pay dividends. But today, the common stocks that are being sold to investors behave nothing like the way stocks are supposed to function.

The early stocks before the 1900s were indeed real equity instruments because they paid dividends. They had a legitimate connection to the business because investors’ profits came from the business. The early stocks were not just Ponzi assets that investors traded; the money investors made was directly dependent on the success of the underlying businesses. There’s even evidence that says the very first stock market crash, which took place in London in 1720, was triggered after the South Seas Company missed its dividend payment.

Sure, investors at the time also made money speculating on capital gains; however, their profit was not entirely dependent on the Ponzi process like it is now.

Dividends were not just a source of profit for investors— they were not just an ornamental accessory when the idea of the stock was first conceived. Dividends were an essential component that legitimized stocks as real equity instruments in a company. It established a connection between stocks and the underlying businesses through a profit-sharing agreement. History shows that dividends made stocks legitimate investment instruments. Dividends were the primary source of profits for investors, and the only reason the first investors invested in stocks. The presence of dividends in an investment is also in-line with what we expect from basic intuition and logic: If people invest in a company, then they should expect to receive a share of the profits from the business they own. Frankly, it would be a little disturbing if the investors didn’t expect it.


Stocks are transferable securities, so there’s always the possibility of making money through capital gains. But capital gains were meant to be a secondary source of profit for the investment— a side bet from selling legitimate equity instruments that paid dividends. The possibility of earning capital gains does not bridge a connection between the stock and the underlying company. It does not legitimize stocks as real equity instruments because it does not establish a genuine investment and profit-sharing relationship between the shareholders and the business.


The legitimacy of stocks as an equity instrument is dependent on dividends, not capital gains. There is nothing in history that shows stocks were designed around the idea of capital gains, nor is it logical to think that an owner of a company is not entitled to any profits from the underlying business. Investors back then weren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have gambled on the new stock investment instrument if there was no profit sharing agreement or legitimate promise of repayment from the underlying company. Investors would have invested in government bonds, which they were familiar with and the idea of stocks would have been dead on arrival.

Stocks came into existence because of dividends, and stocks without dividends are nothing more than Ponzi assets.

The common stocks that dominate the stock market today are not equity instruments— they are a mutated form of what legitimate equity instruments once were. When people refer to stocks as equity instruments now, it is nothing more than a false, artificial label. The same people who think common stocks are legitimate equity instruments are also the same people who know nothing about the real history of stocks. They are unaware of the fundamental differences between the early stocks when the idea of the joint-stock company was first conceived, and the common stocks that dominate the market now. The early stocks were legitimate equity instruments because they paid dividends, and the common stocks today are Ponzi assets because they don’t.


Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: trad123 on August 28, 2022, 12:49:28 PM
Quote
A shareholder’s “claim” to dividends is meaningless because the normal practice is; public companies do not pay dividends, and shareholders receive nothing from the business. A common stock in the open market is treated like a game of hot potato among investors. It gets passed around from player to player, no one wants to hold it as an end product, and every player wants more money back than they put in. The companies that issued the stocks won’t contribute any money to the game, but they’ll encourage the frenzy from the sidelines with phrases like “We’re going to make our share value grow and our shareholders happy!” This is why I refer to common stocks as Ponzi assets.

There are extremely rare situations where a company repurchases some of their own stocks or pays nonguaranteed dividends. But these unlikely events are unforeseeable and, for most companies, nonexistent. If it happened once, it might never happen again. And even if does occur, the amount of money the firm gives back is minuscule (like a small fraction of a penny on the dollar) compared to the profits they take and hoard from investors. Even finance people don’t consider these actions as sources of profit for stocks.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Stubborn on August 28, 2022, 03:22:05 PM
In other words, one man's loss is another man's gain.

It's immoral based on the same principles St. Thomas applies to usury, where you make profit without providing any value.  And when people make money trading stocks it always comes at the expensive of someone else who's lost money.

No, although that's the norm, that's not always certain, for example:

You buy a stock at $10 from a guy who bought it at $9. He made $1.
You sell to a guy who shorts it at $11, you made $1.
You buy it back from him at $10, he made $1.
This can go on and on where you each take turns making profit = no one loses. I know it sounds crazy but it happens.

There actually are what they call "zero sum" instruments like futures, where there is a buyer for every seller and vise versa, but that's not how it works with stocks....or stock options.

One who does not know what they're doing should learn all about it before doing anything, or do not day trade, or probably even invest. But the main reason I say this is because the company themselves, along with the big banks and institutions make most of their money in the markets by lying to investors, which amounts to stealing their money through their bs news and bs upgrades/downgrades, manipulation, algorithmic trading, dark pools and other crooked games they play masterfully - with the help of the media of course.

Just gotta remember it's the stock market, not Sunday school. For them it's all about them and their money, we're talking about, huge, mind boggling sums of money, the bigger the crook, the more they make - at the expense of the unknowing. They're not satisfied until they get every last penny of your money if you let them, and they are very successful at it.   

It's most definitely a rigged game, has been for decades at least, no question about that.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on August 28, 2022, 08:40:14 PM
Any advice in day trading?
You mean crypto or stocks? 
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on August 30, 2022, 05:17:12 PM
The above post was mine.

Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJOWwfOQ3Sc
After watching this video, would you guys say that not only day trading but long term investing like ETFs as well as cryptocurrency is not ok?
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 12, 2022, 12:58:32 PM
As Warren Buffett said, 'whether it's socks or stocks, I like mine 50% off.'

I do not day trade but I have been swing trading for the last five years (holding longer than 1 day and usually a few weeks).  Like any profession, there is a lot to know and there's a million ways to approach the market - penny stocks, shorting, news-driven, earnings, options, selling options, etc.  To save yourself a lot of time, money, and frustration, this is what I'd say to anyone wanting to do it, whether day trading, swing trading or position trading (investing for months on end):

1) Study a lot of charts - the good news is that the market is fractal so a 15minute time frame might work the same as a Daily or Monthly chart will.

2) The two most used indicators seem to be RSI 14 and MACD w/ Histogram so if that's what everyone else is generally using, maybe your entries should be based on that too.

3) Study the next higher time frame - I swing so I start with considering the Monthly and Weekly charts.

Free Bonus Tip - Bullish ('buy low and sell high') will usually begin with the price crossing above the 20 simple moving average and the RSI 14 will be above 40.

P.S. Here is an example of a recent swing trade.  I entered in the $3 range with $4 Call options expiring in September.  I sold those Call options slowly in the $6.50 - $8 range and made 400% - 600% gains.  No, it isn't always like that but if you bail quickly then you'll survive and maybe even thrive.

(https://i.imgur.com/eB1RLrL.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 12, 2022, 01:47:50 PM
There's only one way to day trade IMHO.  This guy offers a course, for a couple hundred dollars, but he's the best in the biz.  Smarmy, anti-gov and conservative, he shows how patterns built on years of behaviors indicate when to get in and out.  He NEVER advocates leaving your money in, but how to read the charts to safely get in and out, on the hour, or on the day.  He even tells you where he went in and why, and where and when he got out, and you can follow his moves and warnings, to see he's making bank. The morality of investing is another story of course, but if you're going to do it, you should watch these videos.  

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oskjyXV2-0E
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 12, 2022, 02:02:16 PM
Funny but real
https://youtu.be/7HWlx-rD5NU?t=2
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Yeti on September 12, 2022, 05:01:14 PM
I think day-trading is not a good way to make money, even for experts in the market. You are statistically more likely to make money with index funds than trading stock, and that applies even to experts. Here's why (https://jlcollinsnh.com/2012/04/25/stocks-part-iii-most-people-lose-money-in-the-market/), though I highly recommend this guy's whole series on the stock market.

The most popular index fund in the world is Vanguard's VTSAX (https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-funds/profile/vtsax), an index fund of the entire American stock market, which has beat almost every other fund over the long term. It is also the largest mutual fund in existence, in terms of the amount of money invested.

About 10-15 years ago Warren Buffet made a bet with the head of a high-end hedge fund (https://modelinvesting.com/articles/warren-buffetts-famous-bet/) that the fund manager couldn't beat the market over a 10-year period. It was a million-dollar bet; Buffet bought an S&P 500 index fund, and the hedge fund manager chose five mutual funds he thought would win. The head of a high-end hedge fund is a highly paid, highly competent stock investor getting paid a vast salary to pick winning stocks. It should have been easy for him to beat the market, right?

Well, he lost miserably. Buffet's index fund returned 125.8% (https://marketrealist.com/p/warren-buffett-sp500-bet/) during that decade, while the fund manager's funds only made 36%.

If you can find me one fund that has beaten the VTSAX over a 10-year period, I'd love to see it. And I'm fairly certain no fund has beaten it over a 20-year period.

So if even the head of high-end hedge fund (who probably had an MBA or even a PhD from some Ivy League university and was in the Mensa Club) can't even beat the market, then it's probably not a good idea to think you can do it.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Minnesota on September 12, 2022, 06:39:41 PM
No, I like making money and not losing it.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 12, 2022, 07:14:32 PM
Well, he lost miserably. Buffet's index fund returned 125.8% (https://marketrealist.com/p/warren-buffett-sp500-bet/) during that decade, while the fund manager's funds only made 36%.


A 36% return is massive.  I don't think you're 'losing miserably' if you 'only' generate returns of 36%.  Try and squeeze 1% out of your bank.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Yeti on September 12, 2022, 07:18:53 PM
A 36% return is massive.  I don't think you're 'losing miserably' if you 'only' generate returns of 36%.  Try and squeeze 1% out of your bank.
.
What an idiotic response. This was a competition. They were each trying to make more money than the other, get it? The S&P fund returned 125.8%; the hedge fund returned 36%. Losing a game 126 to 36 is called getting your ass kicked.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Yeti on September 12, 2022, 07:36:30 PM
.
What an idiotic response. This was a competition. They were each trying to make more money than the other, get it? The S&P fund returned 125.8%; the hedge fund returned 36%. Losing a game 126 to 36 is called getting your ass kicked.
.
I'm sorry to lose my manners like this. Unfortunately I can't remove this because it's in the Anonymous section.

Anyway, the question is not "Which form of investment is better -- savings account or stock market?" The question is: "Which form of stock investing is better -- hedge funds/active investing or index funds?"

If this were a game, the index funds would have won with a score of 126 to 36. If you don't consider that a resounding victory for index funds, well, okay, but those were the results.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 12, 2022, 07:51:15 PM
The funny/sad thing is, absolutely none of this has anything to do with the thread topic of day trading.  I posted my entries, exits, and price target on the CRMD chart which generated basically 500% returns on options.  Now this is about a hedge fund losing to Warren Buffett because he only generated a 36% return?  

The 'logic' here is exactly why I bailed on CathInfo ten years ago.  Looks like I'm already regretting my return and I've literally only posted two or three things.  LOLOLOLOL
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 13, 2022, 12:57:29 AM
I guess a few posters here don't really care about the morality (or lack thereof) but are just out to make money.  Sad.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Stubborn on September 13, 2022, 05:11:50 AM
I guess a few posters here don't really care about the morality (or lack thereof) but are just out to make money.  Sad.
The stock market is all about money, money, money, the making of money, and more money, and yet still more money - by the ones who move the market, mainly the big banks. They are the ones who trade in 100s of millions of dollars multiple times each day. They're the main culprits, the riggers.

Want the DOW to close up? Buy the crap out of a some big caps like Apple, Microsoft etc., while selling the crap out of everything else. When the millions of lemmings hear the news that those are up, millions of "investors" buy the stock - guess who is selling the stock to them?

When price gets too low, the "investors" see losses that are getting too big to take much longer, so in order to cut their losses the "investors" dump the stock at a loss - guess who buying it from them as the price deteriorates? Wash rinse repeat ad infinitum.

Knowing this happens as a rule does not guarantee you will profit off of it because it is a matter timing, timing is everything in day trading. The ones with the big bucks establish the right and wrong timing but are so crafty about it so as to fool even expert traders - and even the manipulators are not always right. When they lose, they lose big, but most often can afford it....because they have several billions of dollars in their kitty.

Even so, a lot of regular people have done well in the markets, and a lot of people can do well, but what is true for most people is the old adage: "If you want to make a small fortune in the markets, start with a big fortune."
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on September 13, 2022, 09:09:56 AM
I guess a few posters here don't really care about the morality (or lack thereof) but are just out to make money.  Sad.

Unless you have a religious vocation, your life is governed by money - car repairs, new clothes for the kiddos, going out to eat once in a while.  That doesn't mean money must govern your life.  It sounds like these comments are all made by people who have zero experience buying and investing in companies?  

For the one who started this thread, I posted my entry, exit, price target, result and a few key pointers as well.  Everyone can do what they want with that.  Hey, no charge.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 09:29:33 AM
Here's a potential Swing Trade for anyone interested.  VGFC is a new company which announced a partnership on 10/3/22 with the aim of greater product distribution.  For the last six months they've been increasing their revenue and expanding retail positions into big box stores like Whole Foods, Metro Market, etc.

I'm waiting for the RSI to cross above 40 and pull back and the price action to start crossing the 20sma (blue line).  Always risky but, after that, it could see a potential move to the .35 cent area - almost 300%.  We'll see what happens.  Bon voyage.

(https://i.imgur.com/rpIe1qu.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Ladislaus on October 04, 2022, 11:31:23 AM
This here forecasts that VGFC will drop another 44% in the next 3 months --
https://stockinvest.us/stock/VGFC

Not sure if I would invest in that given that they're into plant-based meat substitutes (more soy-boys?).  Of course, they could really take off if they start using bugs (per Klaus Schwab) ... except they're allegedly vegan, so I think ze bugz would be out also.

Also, I don't believe that day-trading is particularly moral.  You make money for doing nothing, by basically gambling.  You make money; someone else loses money.  None of the money is based on anything productive ... like the long-abandoned traditional notion of a stock (where the stock is actually an investment in the company and represents an actual share of the company).

Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
I like charts that show price is lower on the left side of the chart and higher on the right side of the chart. To me, that is one ugly chart.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 12:09:55 PM
I like charts that show price is lower on the left side of the chart and higher on the right side of the chart. To me, that is one ugly chart.
Sounds like you're not interested then. Maybe in a month it'll look different but, then again, it's the stock market so maybe not?  lol

Any killer picks to share?
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 12:14:32 PM
You make money for doing nothing, by basically gambling.  You make money; someone else loses money.  
That is a massive oversimplification of how the stock market actually works.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 12:18:35 PM
Also, lest anyone run away on the usual/typical Cathinfo bashing/rip fest, I mentioned criteria that still has to happen before I get involved.  Ahhh...
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 12:32:42 PM
I'm not saying I'm a genius but yesterday I took out some Call Options on Nokia and this is where it's at.  Of course, the right side of the chart could be lower than the left side, but I've been holding longer than a day so it's technically a Swing Trade/Investment in a real company and therefore moral, I think.

 (https://i.imgur.com/5TeDXVW.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 12:46:30 PM
That is a massive oversimplification of how the stock market actually works.
Massive oversimplification to the point he's simply wrong.
he says:
Quote
You make money for doing nothing, by basically gambling.
Beginners most often do in fact gamble, but after a while, day/swing traders take the same calculated risk with their capital that all business owners take. Best to stay on your salary. That's not to insult you, it's to say that most people simply cannot handle the uncertainty of it all.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 01:22:14 PM
This is more what I expect to happen to me....

(https://i.imgur.com/bII8p96.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 01:24:01 PM
This here forecasts that VGFC will drop another 44% in the next 3 months --
https://stockinvest.us/stock/VGFC

Not sure if I would invest in that given that they're into plant-based meat substitutes (more soy-boys?).  Of course, they could really take off if they start using bugs (per Klaus Schwab) ... except they're allegedly vegan, so I think ze bugz would be out also.

Also, I don't believe that day-trading is particularly moral.  You make money for doing nothing, by basically gambling.  You make money; someone else loses money.  None of the money is based on anything productive ... like the long-abandoned traditional notion of a stock (where the stock is actually an investment in the company and represents an actual share of the company).
I've never heard of the Church condemning the stocks and commodities markets which have been around for a few hundred years at least.  The stock market has morphed into a commodities-like market.  I'm not trying to excuse rampant greed in the markets but ideally the day traders (or speculators) provide a valuable service.  They make the entire market more liquid and easier for everyone to buy and sell.  In the worst-case scenario every transaction would need to be negotiated.  But having speculators and market-makers involved makes it possible for buyers and sellers to simply purchase at the going market rate without negotiating anything. There are many perfectly moral scenarios.  e.g. a soybean farmer can purchase futures contracts to sell his soybeans at a certain price.  No matter what happens to the price of soybeans he is locked into the price he specified when he bought the contracts because any loss on the futures contract is offset by the gain on the actual product (soybeans) and vice versa.  This reduces risk and increases predictability.  The businessman is effectively offloading risk onto speculators who apparently (should be) better equipped to carry that risk. That is a valuable tool to a businessman.  Speculators make it possible for the markets to operate smoothly. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/022415/how-use-commodity-futures-hedge.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/022415/how-use-commodity-futures-hedge.asp)  https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/trading-investing/speculation/ (https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/trading-investing/speculation/)

Obviously, just like anything else, the markets can be abused by greedy people.  That's immoral.  And there is a line between immoral irresponsible gambling in stocks/commodities and reasonable speculation about the future direction of prices. There are people who work in the markets (the successful ones) who know how to avoid getting into a gambling mindset and who are able to make reasonable speculations about where the price of things is headed in the near future.  Ideally, their income comes from producers (e.g. farmers, oil companies, etc) who are willing to pay a price to lock in a certain price for their product.  As for the stock market, imagine how expensive it would be to raise cash from investors if every sale had to be negotiated privately.  Speculators make it possible for companies to raise cash easily and relatively inexpensively through the stock markets.  Unfortunately, some fools have gone bankrupt because they are incompetent.  And some people have been ripped off by con-artists like Bernie Madoff.  But those kinds of abuses don't make the entire markets immoral.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 04, 2022, 02:04:03 PM
Basically, I'm posting this for the one who initially created this thread as day trading and swing trading utilize the same strategies.  I just closed half my position for 55% gains overnight on the $4.50 Call Options.  Still holding and watching the rest.  This is a Weekly chart and technically speaking, it's bearish.  Price action cracked below support and has rebounded back into resistance.  Generally speaking, this will typically turn back over and head south as the price is now below every moving average - 'the trend is your friend', as they say, and there's no need to fight it.

(https://i.imgur.com/EOfkaIS.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 13, 2022, 02:56:07 PM
Took out some 2 Call options for .06 (6 cents!).  Expiring Oct 28th and stock also had a huge move last month so we'll see if lightning can strike twice.  Has had good news lately and still bullish on the Monthly chart.  We'll see what happens.  Still watching VGFC.

(https://i.imgur.com/2NihWk7.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 20, 2022, 11:08:41 AM
VGFC starting to look like a setup.  RSI not above 40 yet but has had decent volume lately and getting close to the 20sma (blue line).  Watching for volume increase.  Might start taking a nibbler.

(https://i.imgur.com/13slup7.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 20, 2022, 01:43:44 PM
^^ Lottery ticket
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 25, 2022, 11:57:53 AM
GSAT classic Bull Flag on the 30min chart.  We'll see what happens here.

(https://i.imgur.com/YZiusi5.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 08:25:59 AM
Biotech with critical unmet need product and no other approved products.  Pulled back to 20 moving average and sitting on Weekly trend line support.  
(https://i.imgur.com/dru4Grc.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Yeti on October 26, 2022, 08:33:48 AM
Technical analysis is a discredited theory of stock investing.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 08:36:32 AM
VGFC showing first signs of a Bullish set up, imo.  RSI divergence from Sept to mid-October and RSI pull back with price just trying to cross the 20 simple moving average.  Watching for volume / buyers.

(https://i.imgur.com/0OZVKbs.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 08:37:22 AM
Technical analysis is a discredited theory of stock investing.
What's your preferred method?
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 08:39:53 AM
Additionally, my post on CRMD had to do with fundamentals - a critical need in the health industry.  Ah, well...
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Yeti on October 26, 2022, 08:43:07 AM
What's your preferred method?
.
Index funds. Buy and hold long-term.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 08:47:30 AM
More useless technical analysis.  Classic Bull Flag continuation on GSAT Hourly Chart as posted from yesterday.

(https://i.imgur.com/l0C9aRd.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 08:52:45 AM
NVNO Weekly Chart - another great biotech with a beautiful set up on the Weekly Chart but it suffers from a complete lack of volume (usually less than 30k per day).

(https://i.imgur.com/sGy9sid.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 09:17:11 AM
Sketchy opening for VGFC but buyers look to be stepping up (green bars under the candlesticks).  Heavy volume early bodes well.  For the fellow who created this thread - you could basically be in and out on a 10% move already and call it a day.


(https://i.imgur.com/9OE0zi2.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 09:33:57 AM
More useless technical analysis.  Classic Bull Flag continuation on GSAT Hourly Chart as posted from yesterday.

(https://i.imgur.com/l0C9aRd.png)
Good one, hope you got some of that move.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 26, 2022, 09:56:56 AM
Thanks.  Still holding for hopeful longer term break out on great news lately for the company.  Option flow currently looking good.

(https://i.imgur.com/Kbi5WM8.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 27, 2022, 07:07:41 AM
Are you able to live from swing trading alone without a job? Are there any books or other resources you could recommend to learn day/swing trading?
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 27, 2022, 07:47:16 AM
Yes, it's definitely possible, but don't put any money in the market (and I mean any money) until you've spent at least months studying charts.  There are a million ways to approach it - swing trade, day trade, short-selling, options, etc.  If you'd like to day trade look up CamTheMan, Steven Dux, and Ross Cameron (Cameron, I know, wrote a book on day trading).  You'll definitely need hot keys on your computer for that.

For swing trading (and day trading), you should probably know how the candlesticks of the old Japanese rice traders are used.  Look up Stephen Bigalow who wrote a good book on that and also has a ton of decent trading videos like the one here I picked at random. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAv4lj-TA4Q

Key rule - cut your losses quickly otherwise you'll become a 'bag holder' and likely stuck in a stock going the wrong way for a very long time (the cycle can take at least several months on the weekly chart).  And that is a very, very, life-sapping, soul-sucking, bank-account-destroying experience that you really, really, really don't want.
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 27, 2022, 08:15:12 AM
And Kimble Charting Solutions is a professional take on the macro movements taking place in the markets.

(https://i.imgur.com/WJL2OdH.png)
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on October 28, 2022, 01:44:03 PM
It’s like gambling.   

401 and investing via employment is very bad.  Don’t do it. 

Maybe try cds. 
Title: Re: Do any of you day trade for your living?
Post by: Änσnymσus on November 01, 2022, 09:48:49 AM
VGFC beginning to show some stability on the 4 Hour Chart.  Triple bottom with some volume as of late.  Taking an entry.  

GSAT up 20% since Bull Flag post.  Better than waiting a year for squat from the bank, in my opinion.

WISH had decent news.  Entered in at .81 with an exit at .72 if the move goes against me.  Looking for a mov to .95 for a gain of 18%.  
(https://i.imgur.com/olePYqO.png)