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Author Topic: Dimonds not returning the money of a former member who left  (Read 11095 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dimonds not returning the money of a former member who left
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2022, 06:09:28 PM »
It screams both financial and spiritual irresponsibility on Eric Hoyle's part.

Right.  At one point, Hoyle's mother and grandmother tried to block his giving away all that money.  Hoyle's wealth was entirely inherited.

There was a friend of Hoyle's who testified during the trial that when Hoyle up and left MHFM, he told this friend at the hotel he ended up that he intended to take them down because they're heretics.  This has nothing to do with being "fooled".  At one point, he read some nonsense by Ibranyi and then decided that MHFM were heretics/schismatics.  So he changed his theological position, and then wanted his money back and to take them down.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Dimonds not returning the money of a former member who left
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2022, 06:48:14 PM »
I was browsing that website last week and it is just full of lies and unsubstantiated claims. It's almost as if MHFM is the most lied about trad Order out there.

So, the website was put together by the father of some French kid (young man) who had done work for MHFM for about 5-6 years putting up a French website.  He and his family live in France.  As his son put up a lot of the Dimonds' materials on the site, the father was reading it and actually converted to the Catholic faith as a result.  But there was an incident which was, IMO, very badly handled by the Dimonds.  Evidently the young man wanted to put some video up on the website in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo incident in France.  He had asked permission from the Dimonds, but got no response.  So after waiting quite a while for the response, he posted it.  Well, the Dimonds were enraged, took over control of the website, using a password the young man had given them, took the article down, and locked him out of the website he had spent several years maintaining and doing French translations for.  Evidently, the content of the article was in fact extremely imprudent, where the young man had basically threatened the French government, saying he was ready for them, and ending in the sound of gunfire.  So I don't blame the Dimonds for taking it down.  They could have saved the boy from a 10-year prison sentence.  But the acerbic manner in which they wrote to the young man and his father was completely out of line, bitter, vitriolic, and uncharitable.  He had done nothing more than to make a mistake in judgment.

So the father then wrote the Dimonds, and threatened legal action.  In response, the Dimonds wrote an even more bitter response ... to the young man ... blaming him for the father's letter (unfairly).  So this escalated, and the father had enough with the Dimonds.  And initially the young man did as well.  But then, after a short time, the young man reconciled with the Dimonds and accepted their rebuke.  And the father was incredibly upset by the development.  One day the boy refused to say grace with the family, no doubt persuaded by the Dimonds that his family were non-Catholic heretics.  This enraged the father so much that he threw the young man out of his house.  That was as terrible an overreaction as the Dimonds had made to the Charlie Hebdo video.

After some time, the father learned (with joy, I guess), that the young man had split from the Dimonds.  Except now, evidently, it turned out that he had been influenced by that jackass heretic John Pontrello ... a TRUE heretic, not the Dimond variety "heretic".  And the father is happy that his son has basically adopted Eastern Orthodoxy?  So the young man's reasoning was that Pius IX was a heretic due to a teaching he had issue to the effect that no one has any HOPE of salvation outside the Chuch unless he be encuмbered by invincible ignorance.  This is not a heresy, but is in line with his other teaching that those who are invincibly ignorant are in a position to be enlightened by divine light and grace ... echoing the teaching of St. Thomas.  Pius IX was apalled that the Liberals in his day were using these texts precisely the way that BoDers use them today, to undermine EENS dogma.  But it was his fault for wording them so badly.  In any case, this young man's position was some blend of Ibranyi and Pontrello.

So, this young man then, on the basis of Pius IX being a heretic, decided that Vatican I's dogma of infallibility is also up for grabs ... and is posting links to Pontrello's heretical garbage.  And the father is happy about this ... out of his personal animosity against the Dimond Brothers.

So both the father and the Dimond Brothers badly mishandled this situation, so this young man is a casualty of their actions.  He had in fact run across Pontrello's garbage, and had asked the Dimond Brothers to put together a refutation, but they responded that Pontrello was a nobody and that going after him would only draw attention to his absurd theories.  In retrospect, they probably should have undertaken that refutation, as it may have helped the boy avoid being ensnared by his heresies.

This kind of bitter zeal from the Dimond Brothers has done a lot of damage, even though they're right about most of "the issues".  I'm happy to see a kindler-gentler tone from them the past year or two.  That shift has been very noticeable.  But a lot of the "radical schismatics" they denounce, like Ibranyi and Hoyle, are actually creatures of their own making, as they simply extended some of the same principles and the same quasi-schismatic mentality to various logical conclusions.  If you see videos made by Dimond followers, many of them have that same tone, use the same language ... and so do the attack videos made against them by former followers.

Nevertheless, the father's website there is a complete mess, filled with lies and distortions, clearly biased by his extreme animosity against the Dimond Brothers.  This is not to say that the Dimonds are blameless in the entire mess, but that doesn't justify the false information on the website.  If you look at the court ruling, the judge actually did an excellent job writing up the decision, and, no, the decision was not merely rendered on the basis of him recusing the court on account of First Amendment reasons, but because the facts simply didn't back up Hoyle's charges.  So, for instance, this website claims that Hoyle swears there was a docuмent/contract saying he'd get $750K of his money back, but in sworn testimony, Hoyle actually said he couldn't remember what was in it, whether it had been signed, and could produce no copy of said docuмent.  So the website's account of the Hoyle affair actually contradicts Hoyle's own statements made under oath.

We should pray for all involved, the young man (who's now been lead into heresy by Pontrello), for the father, for Eric Hoyle, for the Dimond Brothers, and for Pontrello himself.



Re: Dimonds not returning the money of a former member who left
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2022, 07:33:58 PM »
I listened to about 20 minutes or so of that kid's testimony about the Dimonds, in an effort to understand other views of them by people involved with them; and shut it off in disgust when he started talking about Jay Dyer and defending him against the Dimonds.

I went down the Dyer rabbit hole a couple years ago when I was clouded by the NO, and came out of it thanks to the MHFM videos utterly refuting him and Eastern "Orthodoxy". I can understand how this guy may have been ensnared by him, and Portrello, who I have no familiarity with. Jay isn't stupid, his content on globalism is good, but his theology is awful and shows how he has no clear foundation of belief.

But I digress, thank you for summarizing the contentions behind that anti-MHFM site. I honestly think this recent debate may help them by having some more visibility and being able to actually see Bro. Peter humanized him quite a bit more.

Re: Dimonds not returning the money of a former member who left
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2022, 09:40:27 AM »
As usual you are incapable of subtlety.
Just because someone claims to be benedictine and are not because they aren't following the rule, doesn't mean that they are not vowed and living in a community as religious. Someone joining said community and staying until they take vows are not ignorant of the life they're vowing.

Just because I experienced firsthand the utter lack of their Benedictine living, does not negate their vows and communal life. Facts are not biased and neither should we be. The views of the Diamonds can not be refuted because of how they live or by what they call themselves. Either they are speaking truth or not. Baalam prophesied the messiah. Truth is truth.

But continue to strike out at anyone who's opinion differs with you without knowing what they think

Hello, I am new here, and this is my first posting.

I have heard in my research into MHFM as actual people, that they do actually live as monks should. Did you "try them out" at one point? What were they like? Did they basically just live "normally?" I support them; I actually bought some of their materials to spread around (propaganda but not the best connotations, that word). I asked for a little extra if they could, and they sent me a chunk of the hundreds of old DVDs they had. 

On another note, do people even really use DVDs anymore?

Re: Dimonds not returning the money of a former member who left
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2022, 09:53:16 AM »
So, the website was put together by the father of some French kid (young man) who had done work for MHFM for about 5-6 years putting up a French website.  He and his family live in France.  As his son put up a lot of the Dimonds' materials on the site, the father was reading it and actually converted to the Catholic faith as a result.  But there was an incident which was, IMO, very badly handled by the Dimonds.  Evidently the young man wanted to put some video up on the website in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo incident in France.  He had asked permission from the Dimonds, but got no response.  So after waiting quite a while for the response, he posted it.  Well, the Dimonds were enraged, took over control of the website, using a password the young man had given them, took the article down, and locked him out of the website he had spent several years maintaining and doing French translations for.  Evidently, the content of the article was in fact extremely imprudent, where the young man had basically threatened the French government, saying he was ready for them, and ending in the sound of gunfire.  So I don't blame the Dimonds for taking it down.  They could have saved the boy from a 10-year prison sentence.  But the acerbic manner in which they wrote to the young man and his father was completely out of line, bitter, vitriolic, and uncharitable.  He had done nothing more than to make a mistake in judgment.

So the father then wrote the Dimonds, and threatened legal action.  In response, the Dimonds wrote an even more bitter response ... to the young man ... blaming him for the father's letter (unfairly).  So this escalated, and the father had enough with the Dimonds.  And initially the young man did as well.  But then, after a short time, the young man reconciled with the Dimonds and accepted their rebuke.  And the father was incredibly upset by the development.  One day the boy refused to say grace with the family, no doubt persuaded by the Dimonds that his family were non-Catholic heretics.  This enraged the father so much that he threw the young man out of his house.  That was as terrible an overreaction as the Dimonds had made to the Charlie Hebdo video.

After some time, the father learned (with joy, I guess), that the young man had split from the Dimonds.  Except now, evidently, it turned out that he had been influenced by that jackass heretic John Pontrello ... a TRUE heretic, not the Dimond variety "heretic".  And the father is happy that his son has basically adopted Eastern Orthodoxy?  So the young man's reasoning was that Pius IX was a heretic due to a teaching he had issue to the effect that no one has any HOPE of salvation outside the Chuch unless he be encuмbered by invincible ignorance.  This is not a heresy, but is in line with his other teaching that those who are invincibly ignorant are in a position to be enlightened by divine light and grace ... echoing the teaching of St. Thomas.  Pius IX was apalled that the Liberals in his day were using these texts precisely the way that BoDers use them today, to undermine EENS dogma.  But it was his fault for wording them so badly.  In any case, this young man's position was some blend of Ibranyi and Pontrello.

So, this young man then, on the basis of Pius IX being a heretic, decided that Vatican I's dogma of infallibility is also up for grabs ... and is posting links to Pontrello's heretical garbage.  And the father is happy about this ... out of his personal animosity against the Dimond Brothers.

So both the father and the Dimond Brothers badly mishandled this situation, so this young man is a casualty of their actions.  He had in fact run across Pontrello's garbage, and had asked the Dimond Brothers to put together a refutation, but they responded that Pontrello was a nobody and that going after him would only draw attention to his absurd theories.  In retrospect, they probably should have undertaken that refutation, as it may have helped the boy avoid being ensnared by his heresies.

This kind of bitter zeal from the Dimond Brothers has done a lot of damage, even though they're right about most of "the issues".  I'm happy to see a kindler-gentler tone from them the past year or two.  That shift has been very noticeable.  But a lot of the "radical schismatics" they denounce, like Ibranyi and Hoyle, are actually creatures of their own making, as they simply extended some of the same principles and the same quasi-schismatic mentality to various logical conclusions.  If you see videos made by Dimond followers, many of them have that same tone, use the same language ... and so do the attack videos made against them by former followers.

Nevertheless, the father's website there is a complete mess, filled with lies and distortions, clearly biased by his extreme animosity against the Dimond Brothers.  This is not to say that the Dimonds are blameless in the entire mess, but that doesn't justify the false information on the website.  If you look at the court ruling, the judge actually did an excellent job writing up the decision, and, no, the decision was not merely rendered on the basis of him recusing the court on account of First Amendment reasons, but because the facts simply didn't back up Hoyle's charges.  So, for instance, this website claims that Hoyle swears there was a docuмent/contract saying he'd get $750K of his money back, but in sworn testimony, Hoyle actually said he couldn't remember what was in it, whether it had been signed, and could produce no copy of said docuмent.  So the website's account of the Hoyle affair actually contradicts Hoyle's own statements made under oath.

We should pray for all involved, the young man (who's now been lead into heresy by Pontrello), for the father, for Eric Hoyle, for the Dimond Brothers, and for Pontrello himself.
Yeah, they don't exactly seem to be the most "socially intelligent" people around. I guess that's what happens when you join a monastery before you can even buy beer. I mean, they are yanks, too, and yankees do tend to be pretty confrontational anyway. lol

So far, try as I might (and a part of me *wants* to), I have not been able to refute them or really find any evidence that goes against them that isn't a stretch. That is unfortunate with that French situation. So willing to call out others, yet they do seem to have at least some measure of pride. Is their pride really justified, though? I've been reading Fr. Feeney's "The Point," so there have certainly been people long before they came along that preached against universalist BoD. It isn't like somebody hadn't taught the Dimonds about it, in the first place.